Grégoire, Neveu and Audet dit Lapointe families

Working on the Neveu and Audet dit Lapointe families accidentally led me to the correct Grégoire family. I had been thinking that I should look at the DeBlois dit Grégoire families but I was incorrect. This Grégoire family traces back to Nicolas Grégoire who came to Canada prior to 20 Jul 1772 when he married Marie Catherine Guerin at Notre Dame de la Prairie de la Madeleine, La Prairie. His parents are listed as being of the Paroisse de St-Laurent, Torel, Lorraine, France. Perhaps he arrived during the French and Indian Wars or earlier for the defense of New France. I think that I will need to consult records in Montreal to determine that if possible.

Marie Catherine Guerin was baptized at Notre Dame de la Prairie de la Madeleine, La Prairie 19 Apr 1743 and she was the daughter of Jean Baptiste Guerin (born 16 Oct 1699 at La Prairie) and Catherine Boudreau (born 1 Dec 1703 at La Prairie). Although I have searched the registers at La Prairie the marriage of 29 Jan 1725 can not be found - there is a gap in the register it would appear. However, the marriage registration for their daughter Marie Catherine Guerin gives these names as the names of the parents of Marie Catherine. The proposed fathers of both of these parents have also come directly from France from the offered genealogy on World Connect and at nosorigines.qc.ca which is an extremely helpful site. I have now joined and will add information as I prove the lines with original parish register documents.

Nicolas Grégoire does not live a long life as he died 10 Oct 1784 at Chateauguay and is buried 11 Oct 1784 at St Joachim, Chateauguay. His son Nicolas was baptized 30 Jul 1773 at Notre Dame de la Prairie, La Prairie. Death date for him not yet found. Nicolas (b 1773) married Geneviève Patenaude 12 Jan 1807 at St Constant. The parents of Geneviève are listed on the marriage lines as Michel Patenaude and Charlotte Gervais. I will continue to search out the records for this couple but they married 23 Oct 1786 at Longueuil, Chambly.

Nicolas and Geneviève had a son Nicolas Joseph who was born and baptized 15 Jun 1809 at St Constant. He married Marie Marguerite Hémard 6 Feb 1837 at St Constant. Marguerite was baptized 2 May 1809 at St Constant and she was the daughter of Jean Pierre Hémard and Catherine Payant dite St Onge. I have been successful in tracing her families back in this area into the 1600s. I shall write them up at a later time.

I hadn't looked closely enough at the Census for the Grégoire family at Embrun. When I did do so I realized that Joseph Grégoire's wife Marguerite Emard was actually a clue for me that I had missed. She was born at St Constant (he was born at Chateauguay) according to the census but the marriage of their son Antoine had stated that his parents were Nicolas Joseph Grégoire and Marie Potvin. When I finally decided to check the marriage of Joseph Grégoire and Marguerite Emard (as they are listed on the census) I discovered that their marriage lines revealed the answer to my quandry. The lines read "Nicolas Grégoire, journalier, files majeur de feu Nicolas Grégoire, et de Geneviève Patenaude, de Saint Remi d'une part et Marguerite Hémas, fille majeure de feu Pierre Hémas et de Catherine Payant de cette paroisse (St Constant) d'autre part." Then pulling up the marriage of Pierre Hémas and Catherine Payant (14 Oct 1782 at Notre Dame de la Prairie de la Madeleine, La Prairie) revealed further that "Pierre Hémard fils d'Antoine Hémard et de Marie Bourget. Ses pere et mere de cette Paroisse (St Constant) d'une part, et Catherine St Onge fille de Jean Baptiste Payant dit St Onge et de Catherine Lérigée. Ses pere et mere de cette paroisse d'autre part." I then found the marriages of these sets of parents.

The marriage of Antoine Hémard and Marie Bourget stated "Antoine Hémard fils de Pierre Hémard et de Marguerite Blois ..... d'une part et Marie Bourget fille de feu Deny Bourget et de Marie Lebeau ....d'autre part." Still I hadn't found my answer to the Potvin name that appeared on the marriage lines that listed Marie Potvin and not Marguerite Emard which was the name on the census. I continued working my way back on the Hémard line.

I then found the marriage of Pierre Hémard and Margueriet Belois as it was listed in the register for Longueuil, Chambly on 6 Feb 1702. The register reads " Pierre Aymard agé de trente quatre au environs fils de deffunts Pierre Aymar et de Marie Bido ..... d'une part et Jeanne Marguerite Belois veuve de deffunt André St Aubin agé de trente trois ans ... d'autre part. Still no answer to the Potvin mystery.

I decided to find siblings for Marguerite. Then I noted a Pierre Hémard married to Marguerite Denaut 11 Aug 1806 (this Marguerite was a godmother to Marguerite Hémard). This Pierre was baptized 29 Sep 1784 and the son of Pierre Hémard and Catherine Payant dite St Onge. His marriage lines of 11 Aug 1806 solved the mystery and the need to remember to look at siblings if the trail goes cold. His marriage lines read: Pierre Hémard dit Potvin majeur labourer fils de Pierre Hémard dit Potvin et de Catherine Payant ....."

Solution to the parents of Antoine Grégoire and why on his marriage lines in 1869 at Ottawa he listed his parents as Nicolas Joseph Grégoire and Marie Potvin. Solving this mystery led back to the correct Grégoire line and the realization that this was not the Deblois dit Grégoire line found much earlier in New France but rather a later arrival in the 1750s period of the history of New France.

I shall return now to proving the 3x great grandparents after this diversion. Each diversion leads me down more paths solving this family tree. It is a work in progress though as I have now accumulated 117 separate surname files of images. I decided to publish the tree to an *.pdf file and was quite amazed to discover that I had a 407 page file. My own file on which I have been working for seven years now (hard to believe!) runs around 325 pages!. My husband's file though for his families runs much higher. I must ask him the current size. He publishes it as his mother's and his father's lines independently. Mine is still small enough that I can continue for quite a while I suspect to publish it as one file. I am slowly separating out the lines on which I am collecting extra family data so my file may never get to be that large. I haven't actually worked on it for a while. I have been busy with this French Canadian research. The priests of the Church have done a marvelous job of recording the genealogical history of the Quebec families in their registers.

Neveu and Lapointe families

Continuing with the Neveu and Lapointe families, I did find a baptism for Benjamin Nepveu son of Jean Baptiste Nepveu and Adélaide Piché with godparents Pierre Piché and Adélaide Tourangeau which incidentally happen to be the names of Adélaide's parents. The birthdate for Benjamin is 12 April 1861 at Grénville and as I check the census there is only a Jean Baptiste in this family (later on the census 1901) where he records his date of birth as 11 April 1861. I feel comfortable with saying that this is Jean Baptiste and that his name is Jean Baptiste Benjamin Neveu with his baptism 28 Apr 1861 at Grénville.

Finding the marriage at Pointe Gatineau does not prove to be an easy task. The microfilm is very poor first of all and secondly the notation in the margin for Jean Baptiste Neveu and Léa Lapointe is for a burial not a marriage. The date is 27 Mar 1884 I think. It would appear that pages may be missing from this register on the microfilm. Hopefully I will be able to look at another copy of this register at some point.

The tree on ancestry that gave me the marriage date also has a mention of Jean Baptiste's journals being in the archives at the University of Ottawa. I shall try to see them on my next visit to that archives. With his own words linking back, I shall be happier with these connections since I am unable to find their marriage myself at this point in time. Finding the baptism was rather interesting though and no burial for a Benjamin Neveu. It is not unusual to give a different baptismal name than the name that a child eventually uses.

I shall use this material with a mention of location so that eventually I will find the actual marriage lines for Jean Baptiste and Léa in 1882.

Proving Léa still has the difficulty of finding her baptism. I have found the baptisms of her older siblings but hers has evaded me thus far. She records her date of birth as 6 Mar 1862 on the 1901 census. Looking at their death registrations in Ontario will be helpful. The burial registrations do not list their parents names. The name Neveu is frequent enough that assuming the connection without the marriage lines is a little chancy - the journals should prove interesting perhaps in making the links.

I believe I may have located a problem with Léa's baptism. Her date of birth should be 1863 from the census and her burial record. The page that would contain her baptism at St-Hermas has an incomplete image. I have written off to Ancestry to see if they can resolve that problem. I shall await the results of my query for that item. Good find for me actually as I hadn't noticed that all but one census records her as born in 1863 (of course I looked carefully at that one!).

Continuing on with proving these lines and I think I shall spend some time sewing today.

Piché and Tourangeau families

Now proving the 3x great grandparents Jean Baptiste Neveu and Léa Lapointe, I have not yet found the baptism of Jean Baptiste Neveu although he states he is born 11 Apr 1861. I have found the baptisms for both of his parents. However the marriage registration for Jean Baptiste Neveu and Léa Lapointe at Pointe Gatineau 20 Sep 1882 is difficult to read and I am still working on that transcription. The parents I have taken from an online table but I am now trying to verify the information.

I did find the parents of Adélaide Piché from her baptism as Pierre Piché and Adélaide Tourangeau but would still like to verify the marriage of Jean Baptiste Neveu and Léa Lapointe before proceeding further back in time.

Since the biggest problem is finding the marriage of Jean Baptiste and Léa I decided to do some online searching and came across an interesting post to the Audet family message board:

In 1957, the Institut Généalogique Drouin in Montreal did our family tree. Innocent Audet mar.Reine Vincente, Nicolas Audet mar. Madelaine Després (1670), François Audet mar. Marguerite Bernard (1709), François Audet mar. Madeleine Baillargeon (1730), François Audet mar. Thérèse Létourneau (1763), Pierre Audet mar. Marie-Genevière Plouffe (1793), François-Audet Lapointe mar. Olive Richer (1852), Hyacinthe Lapointe mar. Angèle Grandmaison (1893), Delphis Lapointe mar. Catherine-Esther Villeneuve in 1922, Vital Lapointe mar. Pauline Richard (1947).

As always substantiating this online information is always a first priority but as I glanced back through the records that I have looked at already I am realizing that this claims there is a son François from the marriage of François Audet and Madeleine Baillargeon which does not appear on other people's charts. Working my way back from François Audet Lapointe married to Oliver Richer 26 Feb 1852 at St-Hermas is a good start back. I need to prove Léa back at some point and this will give me those details. I am still needing the marriage lines for Léa and Jean-Baptiste and will continue that search. The LDS must be going to put the registers for Point Gatineau online as they have the index set up. Hopefully they will be more legible than the ones on Ancestry at the moment. It is good having so many groups working on this material.

Perhaps by the end of today I will have proven the submission to the message board and learned a little more about the Audet dit Lapointe family.

Proving the 3x great grandparents

After the last week or so of diversion away from the logical proving in my Legacy file of the ancestors I have returned to working on the 3x great grandparents on the paternal side. I need to find a marriage (verbally verified by email) at the Ontario Archives next time we are there for Léon Matte and Marie Louise Gagnon. I would also like to locate the marriages of their parents. Olivier Gagnon and Josephte Doutre are said to have married at St Luc, Curran, Prescott County, Ontario 26 Jun 1844 but I do not have not yet located the marriage of Joseph Louis Matte and Josephte delaTour. I also do not have the parents of this couple. This is a large brickwall in this line. I do not know for sure the parents of Olivier Gagnon but Josephte Doutre's parents appear to be Etienne Denis Doutre and Victoire Lalonde. Finding the marriage at Curran would answer that question for sure but the baptism of Josephte Doutre born at Plantagenent 5 Jan 1825 and baptized 9 Feb 1825 at Montébello do have these parents listed. The date of birth for Josephte matches the census. For Olivier Gagnon he appears to be born about 1811 from his death registration where his age is given as 88 in 1900.

I will continue working on these proofs and I am now on the Mourier family. A very interesting line as he is the only ancestor to have come from France (or anywhere else for that matter) in the 1800s. He arrived before 1877 and was born in 1845 in France. I haven't found him on the 1871 census yet but will continue checking that. I have not yet found his arrival in the immigration records. The information I have for his parents is from the nosorigines.qc.ca website. This is an excellent website to use I have found thus far. I check every record in Ancestry but having the thoughts is helpful.

Aubain-Aubin family

Working on the Aubain family at St Benoit, I have Catherine's baptism 26 Sep 1804 at St Benoit and her marriage to Jacques Neveu 11 Aug 1835 also at St Benoit. The marriage registration for this couple shows her parents names and that Jacques Neveu was the widower of Catherine Drouin. Pulling up the marriage of Jacques Neveu and Catherine Drouin 5 Oct 1818 reveals his parents names.

Parents of Jacques Neveu were: Augustin Neveu and Marie Citoleux who were themselves married 6 Jul 1788 at Ste Geneviève.

Parents of Catherine Aubain were: Toussaint Aubain and Céleste Legault dite Delaurier who were themselves married 22 Sep 1794 at St Eustache. Their parents were listed on the marriage lines.

Parents of Toussaint Aubain were: Louis Amable Aubin and Marie Angelique Varrin dite Lapistolle. They were married 8 Jun 1761 at Longueuil. Their parents were listed on the marriage lines (below).

Parents of Céleste Legault dite Delaurier were: François Legault dite Delaurier and Céleste Lapierre dite Birond (sp). I have not yet located their marriage.

Continuing with Toussaint Aubain line, I found his grandparents.

Parents of Louis Amable Aubin were: Réne Aubin and Françoise Bigras who were themselves married 15 Jun 1716 at St Joachim, Pointe-Claire.

Parents of Marie Angélique Varrin dit Lapistolle were: Nicolas Barrin and Marie Suzanne Daunay who were married 7 Jan 1733 at Longueuil.

Looking at the parents of Louis Amable Aubin, I found his grandparents listed on his parents wedding lines.

Parents of Réne Aubin were André Aubin and Marie Nevine who married in France and Réne was also baptized in France.

Parents of Françoise Bigras were: François Bigras and Marie Brunet who were married 31 Aug 1693 at Montréal.

The parents of François Bigras were Mathurin Bigras and Catherine Parenteau who were married in France and did not come to New France.

The parents of Marie Brunet were Mathieu-Michel Brunet dit Letang and Marie Blanchard who married 10 Nov 1667 at Notre-Dame, Québec. They were both both born in France. This is the second child of this couple in the family tree. Her older sister Marie-Anne married Antoine Pilon 10 Jan 1689 at Montréal. I still need to verify the Pilon family tree though so will keep that thought on the side for the moment.

The parents of Mathieu-Michel Brunet dit Letang were Jacques Brunet and Jacqueline Recheine both of France.

The parents of Marie Blanchard were Jean Blanchard and Martine Lebas both of France. The marriage lines do give the parishes for the parents in most cases.

Tomorrow I shall continue working on my verification for these lines. I need to go back and work on the 3x great grandparents having completed the 2x great grandparents. I became distracted as I started to pull the proofs from the parish records.

Visitations - Blake family

I decided to look at the Buller family in the Visitations and extracted all the records that pertain to this family. There were a surprising number of them but only one set that was original to the family with all the remainder being marriages into families that were in the various Visitations. As I was checking Surrey I noticed that I had missed one of the Blake Visitations.

This is an exceedingly important one as it turned out. The Blake family in Surrey are the grandchildren of John Blake last at Eastontown and the eldest son of William (eldest son of Nicholas Blake). This is the ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales - Thomas Blake married to Dorothy Mayowe and the son of Thomas Blake married to Eleanor Hall (daughter of Robert Hall (brother to Sir John Hall). They are using the name Blague alias Blake and their ancestry back to Nicholas is not shown. However matching this up with earlier Visitations clearly shows their relationship to Nicholas Blake.

The most fascinating part of all of this is the family coat of arms that they are using and which has presumably been accepted by the Heraldic Society since it is published and signed by Richard Blake son of Thomas Blake and Dorothy Mayhew. The Arms are quartered with the top left section Blake, the top right is for the Dur[r]ant family, the bottom left for the Bellott (Billet) family and the fourth quarter unfinished except for the Blake chevron. This is the first proof that I have found for the claimed relationship between the Hampshire and the Wiltshire Blake families.

By this point in time this Blake family is probably not in communication with my line at Andover. When Richard (brother of John mentioned) above wrote his will (on his deathbed it would appear) he foreclosed on the mortgage that he held for his eldest brother John on Eastontown. Richard had a large family and was providing for them in his will and probably felt he had to do that. Eastontown had to be sold to pay the mortgage and this Blake family moved to Essington (Hampshire) in that generation. This Visitation clearly notes that Thomas Blake married to Elinor Hall lived at Essington. It is also the first mention that I have seen that William Blake brother of Thomas Blake of Essington had been knighted. He is referred to as Sir William Blake of Kensington Knight. This William was married twice with the first being to Mary Beverley (daughter of Henry Beverley of Yorkshire). No mention is made of his marriages or children.

He does appear on a London Visitation as Blake of Hales House where the lineage is traced back to William Blake of Eastontown but no coat of arms accompanies this Visitation listing. In this earlier Visitation he has not been knighted but rather serves as a County of Middlesex Justice of the Peace.

I am always been ambivalent of the relationship between the Hampshire and the Wiltshire Blake families. The family lore seemed weak although Barrie Blake on his webpages (http://blakeheritage.synthasite.com/iframe1.php) shows the clear marking of the line back. As he traces it back my line descended from Henry Blake married to Elizabeth Durrant (coat of arms includes this family). Then his son William Blake married Elizabeth Power. Their son Henry married Margaret Billett (coat of arms includes this family) and they had two sons Robert Blake and William Blake. This William is then said to have married Mary Cole and their children are listed as Nicholas, Humphrey, Alice, Henry, Robert and Margery Blake. The only problem that I have with this is that the mother of Nicholas Blake left her will in 1527 stating that her children were Nicholas, Robert and Elizabeth (married to Mylne). Of course this Humphrey is said to be the Blake that headed the Somerset Blake family moving there in the early 1500s to Plainsfield. Not mentioning him though does seem odd. The name of the mother of Nicholas was Jone Blake on the will not Mary which is also rather confusing. The other children could have died although there are descendants listed for them. This is the accepted line though for this Blake family in published material. The Nicholas in the online tree and my Nicholas are indeed the same person. I just need to continue collecting data so that I can either support the published literature or contradict it :)

This would mean for my line: myself, Ernest Edward George Blake, Samuel George Blake, Edward Blake, John Blake, Thomas Blake, Joseph Blake, Thomas Blake, Thomas Blake, John Blake, William Blake, William Blake, Richard Blake, William Blake, Nicholas Blake (he is the furtherest back that I can show by records) and then the published material would show William Blake (married to Mary Coles (will contradicts this first name)), William Blake, Henry Blake (married to Margaret Billett), William Blake (married to Elizabeth Power), Henry Blake (married to Elizabeth Durrant), Robert de Blakeland (married to Anne Cole), Robert de Blakeland.

The line down from Nicholas matches the historical material of the time (wills and land records). Nicholas married Margaret [unknown] and their children were William, Edmund, Alice (married to Christopher Godwin 16 Oct 1542), Elizabeth (married to Richard Mondaye) and one that I do not have Ezod (no further information). Ezod is not listed in Nicholas' will of 1547 nor does his mother list him in her will of 18 Dec 1558. However, he could have died much earlier.

I need to transcribe the Blake wills that I have from the 1500s in Wiltshire. Once that is done I may have a clearer picture of this family line in Wiltshire and how it connects into my Andover Hampshire line. At the moment though I am in conflict with all published lines down to my Nicholas Blake. The Visitations have not to this point linked the Wiltshire and the Hampshire Blake families other than the fact that they both used the "Blake" coat of arms attributed to Robert Blake married to Avis Wallop which appears in a sketch of the stained glass window to them at Calne Wiltshire. This coat of arms published with the descendants of John older brother to my Richard is very very interesting. One generation back at a time. I need to find the name of Jone Blake's husband who died before she wrote her will in 1527 and whose children were Robert, Nicholas and Elizabeth (married to Mr. Mylne).

Now the "match" of the yDNA with another Blake member becomes even more important in the scheme of things. I do not have any idea of this person's ancestry. Perhaps in time more will test and an even clearer picture will emerge. But in the meantime this is my first clue that I find to be historically significant that the Hampshire and the Wiltshire Blake families do indeed share common ancestry.

Tremblay family and others

This week has flown by. Monday we needed to work on a talk that my husband is giving in a couple of months on Loyalists. The whole day disappeared quickly. Tuesday was equally busy as I decided to go to LAC once again to work on our son in law's ancestors.

I wanted to look up several well known lines and they proved to have a fair number of published books. The Tremblay family, the Grégoire family, the Séguin dit Ladéroute family, the Potvin family and about ten others that I wanted to look at.

The Tremblay family has many many publications including a four volume set of marriages organized in a very definitive way which made my search back a good deal easier. Rosalie Trembly was born circa 1885 at Grenville Québec. I am still hunting out her baptism. but the marriage registration with Homère Grégoire gives her parents as Adolphus Tremblay and Lucie Labelle. I managed to find their marriage 4 Aug 1879 at Notre Dame de Sept Doleurs, Grenville Paroisse. The parents of the couple were recorded.

Parents of Adolphus Tremblay were Lucien Tremblay and Marie Bernard ditte Blondin.

Parents of Lucie Labelle were François Labelle and Marcelling Lacroix.

I finally found the baptism for Joseph Delphis Trembly 13 October 1860 at Papineauville. This was an excellent find and I would like to find his burial.

Looking at Lucien Trembly and Marie Bernard ditte Blondin I finaly found their marriage 12 Feb 1833 at Montebello. The parents of this couple were recorded.

Parents of Lucien Tremblay were Michel Tremblay and Ursule Gagnon.

Parents of Marie Bernard ditte Blondin were François Bernard dit Blondin and Charlotte Colin. For this couple I am at a very solid brick wall. I noticed a number of other researchers are equally confused. No further details on this couple at the moment

However, The marriage of Michel Tremblay and Ursule Gagnon was readily found 4 Jun 1793 at Baie St-Paul. This is the New France home for the Tremblay family so I have been really lucky. Lucien was baptized 22 Oct 1809 at Baie St-Paul.

The parents of Michel Michel Tremblay were Louis-Marie Tremblay and Marie-Anne Victoire Girard.

The parents of Ursule Gagnon were Joseph Gagnon and Marie-Luce Simard.

Michel Tremblay was baptized 28 Jun 1772 at Baie St-Paul and Ursule Gagnon was baptized 12 Nov 1775 at Baie St-Paul.

I continued working back on the Tremblay family. Louis-Marie Tremblay and Marie-Anne Victoire Girard were married 12 Jan 1757 at Baie St-Paul.

The parents of Louis-Marie Tremblay were Nicolas Tremblay and Louise Simard.

The parents of Marie-Anne Victoire Girard were Pierre Girard and Marie-Anne Vezinat.

I found the baptism for Nicolas Tremblay 23 Jan 1699 at Baie St-Paul and his burial 1516 Aug 1748 at Les Eboulements.

The marriage of Nicolas Tremblay and Louise Simard was 18 Jan 1724 at Baie St-Paul. Their parents were also recorded.

The parents of Nicolas Tremblay were Pierre Tremblay and Marie Roussin.

The parents of Louise Simard were Etienne Simard and Rosalie Bouchard.

As it turned out putting the tree together (more on this later), this family has three Tremblay lines from the marriage of Pierre Tremblay and Marie Roussin 15 Nov 1685 at L'Ange Gardien. They include Nicolas Etienne and Marie-Madeleine Tremblay. A fourth child Rosalie Tremblay married Pierre Girard who was also an ancestor (second wife and he; Rosalie was his first and she died at 24 years of age).

The marriage of Pierre Tremblay and Marie Roussin also recorded the parents names.

The parents of Pierre Tremblay were Pierre Tremblay and Ozanne Achon and they married Oct 1657 at Notre-Dame, Québec.

The parents of Ozanne Achon were Jean Achon and Hélèene Regourde who married in France.

Their son Pierre Tremblay was born 2 Aug 1660 at Québec.

The parents of Pierre Tremblay (married to Ozanne Achon) were Philibert Tremblay and Jeanne Coignet (they were married in France).

A very useful day at the Archives but it was taken me two days and on into today to pull all the marriages from the Registers and record them in my Legacy file.

Tomorrow I shall clean. The time passes much too quickly.

Routledge Wills

From the Carlisle Record Office, Abstracts of Wills

Carlisle Record Office Will of George Nixon, Yeo of Longeknow, Bewcastle, 1732, pg 213
Archibald Routledge, nephew, husband of Jane Routledge
James Routledge, nephew, son of Thomas and brother of Mary
Jane Routledge, w o Archibald Routledge
Mary Routledge, niece, d o Thomas and sister of James
Thomas Routledge, brother in law? Father of niece Mary and nephew James
Thomas Routledge, s o William R* of Crew
Thomas Routledge, Bach of Kirbecks, Bc
Thomas Routledge, Wit
William Routledge, of Crew father of Thomas
Matthew Soulby, Wit
Thomas Forrester, Wit
Anne Foster, niece d o sister Margaret Foster
Elizabeth Foster, Niece d o sister Margaret
Margaret Foster, sister mother of Anne & Elizabeth Foster
Anne Nixon, wife
John Nixon, brother, plus his two daughters, unnamed
Thomas Nixon, brother
James Noble, of Flatt, nephew brother of Jane Noble
Jane Noble, niece, sister of James

Archibald Routledge, named in the will, is baptized in 1694 and the son of Robert Routledge and Grizzel Foster. His wife Jane Nixon was the daughter of John Nixon and Ann Armstrong. George's other sister married Thomas Routledge. I didn't find that marriage yet.

Amazing how much you can see in these abstracts.

We ended up going to work on a talk for a group in May so I didn't accomplish much more. I did do a writeup for my husband for his Ottawa Genealogist journal on searching at the Albany New York State Archives.

Routledge family and the Dodgson Manuscript

I continued looking at the Dodgson Manuscript (prepared by Robert Dodgson in 1843) and sorting out the Routledge entries. I am gradually building the family line of the Oakshaw Routledges. The furtherest back would appear to be William Routledge bc 1620 and when compared with the 1641-42 Protestation Returns for Bewcastle there are four Williams listed (as well as 1 Adam, 1 Bartholomew, 1 Christopher, 3 Edwards, 1 Francis, 2 Georges, 1 Gilbert, 1 James, 1 Michael, 1 Nicholas, 1 Richard, 1 Rowland, 3 Thomas'). Only one James is interesting as that is the name of William's son but he would be too young to be listed.

Protestation Returns 1641-42
Routledge Adam
Routledge Bartholomew
Routledge Christopher
Routledge Edward
Routledge Edward
Routledge Edward
Routledge Francis
Routledge George
Routledge George
Routledge Gilbert
Routledge James
Routledge Michael
Routledge Nicholas
Routledge Quinton
Routledge Richard
Routledge Rowland
Routledge Thomas
Routledge Thomas
Routledge Thomas
Routledge Thomas
Routledge William
Routledge William
Routledge William


The 1604 Land Survey for Bewcastle lists 52 Routledge members and I have broken them into father and son:

Son Father
Routledge, Adam Routledge, Adam
Routledge, John Routledge, Allen
Routledge, Adam Routledge, Andrew
Routledge, Archibald Routledge, Andrew
Routledge, James Routledge, Andrew
Routledge, John Routledge, Andrew
Routledge, Thomas Routledge, Andrew
Routledge, William Routledge, Archibald
Routledge, James Routledge, George
Routledge, Jerrat Routledge, George
Routledge, Quintain Routledge, George
Routledge, Adam Routledge, James
Routledge, James Routledge, James
Routledge, Thomas Routledge, James
Routledge, William Routledge, James
Routledge, Thomas Routledge, Jarret
Routledge, Richard Routledge, Jeffery
Routledge, Richard Routledge, Jeffery
Routledge, Thomas Routledge, Jeffery
Routledge, Clement Routledge, John
Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, John
Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, John
Routledge, George Routledge, John
Routledge, George Routledge, John
Routledge, Jerrat Routledge, John
Routledge, Quint Routledge, John
Routledge, Thomas Routledge, John
Routledge, Thomas Routledge, John
Routledge, William Routledge, John
Routledge, James Routledge, Martin
Routledge, Edward Routledge, Nicholas
Routledge, Simon Routledge, Quintaine
Routledge, Andrew Routledge, Quintin
Routledge, Andrew Routledge, Quintin
Routledge, Francis Routledge, Quintin
Routledge, John Routledge, Quintin
Routledge, Simon Routledge, Quintin
Routledge, Gerege Routledge, Richard
Routledge, Jenkin Routledge, Richard
Routledge, John Routledge, Richard
Routledge, Jock Routledge, Robert
Routledge, Anthony Routledge, Rowland
Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, Rowland
Routledge, Edward Routledge, Rowland
Routledge, Richard Routledge, Thomas
Routledge, Richard Routledge, Thomas
Routledge, William Routledge, Thomas
Routledge, William Routledge, Thomas
Routledge, William Routledge, Thomas
Routledge, Alexander Routledge, William
Routledge, Edward Routledge, William
Routledge, John Routledge, William


This chart tells me quite clearly that I should not try to make any assumptions about the Routledge family before the Parish Registers yet. Although there are only 17 distinct father's names - there could be more than one person for each distinct name (i.e. Andrew, James, John, Quintin, Thomas and William in particular).

However the 1630 Indenture

By indenture bearing date May 27 in the sixth year of Charles 1 (and confirmed by decree in chancery, between Sir Richard Graham of Eske, Bart, lord of the Manor of Bewcastle, and the several tenants, it is agreed that the tenants shall pay a four-penny fine upon change of lord by death and upon change of tenant by death or alienation; and shall pay suite of court, suit at the lords mill, customary works and carriages, and other boons, duties and services accustomed; and that for a heriot the lord shall have the best beast of which every tenant shall die possessed, (the riding horse of such gtenant kept by him for the lord's service only excepted); if the tenant has no beast he shall pay 20 shillings in lieu of the heriot. The tenant not to let or mortgage their tenements for above three years, without licence of the lord. The lord shall take a bounty of eight years rent on giving his assent to the custom.
Signed by
Andrew Dodgsons Ford
Henry Gibson, younger, of Bewcastle
Robert Routledge, of Cum Crooke
Allan Routledge, of Cum Crooke
Thomas Routledge, of the Kilne
John Story, of the Rigg
John Scott, of Nunscleugh
Andrew Nixon, of the Flat
James Nixon, of the Croft
Andrew Nixon, of the Ford
Thomas Nixon, of the Ford
William Nixon, of Cross Hill
Viz. A Schedule Indented Expressing the names of the Tenants of Bewcastle that have Compounded with the said Sir Richard Graham Knt. and Bart. their Landlord of the Confirmation of their severall messuages and tenements to them and their Heirs to fine certain together with the certainty of their yearly rent and Services.
John Simpson for a Messuage and Tenement in Bewcastle, rent 12d, one day mowing, one day shearing, and a horse to serve the Lord as hath been accustomed.
Nicholas Simpson for a Messuage and Tenement in Bewcastle, rent 12d, one day mowing, one day shearing and a horse to serve the Lord as aforesaid.
Andrew Armstrong for a Messuage and Tenement at Low Grains, rent 14d, one day mowing and one day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
John Armstrong for a Messuage and Tenement at Rigg, rent 2s 6d., one day mowing, one day shearing, and for Carriages with horses 2s.
Elizabeth Armstrong for a Messuage and Tenement at Rigg, rent 6s 8d, one day mowing, and one day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
John Story for a Messuage and Tenement at Rigg, rent 6s 8d, one day mowing, one day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Adam Story for a Messuage and Tenement at Pealhill, rent 5s 10d , a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Robert Story for a Messuage and Tenement at Pealhill, rent 2s 11d, one day mowing, one day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Elizabeth Story for a Tenement without a house at Pealhill, rent 2s 11d, one day mowing, one shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Robert Noble for a Messuage and Tenement at Hill rent 1s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages with horses 2s
James Noble for a messuage and Tenement at Esheycroft, rent 3s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing.
James Nixon, younger, for a Tenement, without a house at Stockasteed, rent 8d, a day shearing.
George Nixon for a Tenement, there without a house, at 8d, a day mowing.
John Nixon, in the right of Jane, his wife, for a Messuage and Tenement at Stockastead, rent 3s, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Elizabeth Noble for a Messuage and Tenement at Stockastead, rent 3s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and Carriages with horses 2s.
Edward Noble for a Messuage and Tenement at Parkhead, rent 14d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Hector Noble for a Messuage and Tenement at Parknook, rent 1s 8d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
James Nixon for a Messuage and Tenement at Bodrick, rent 2s 8d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for carriages 2s.
Thomas Nixon for a Messuage and Tenement at Park, rent 10d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Grissel Nixon, widow, for a Messuage and Tenement at Park, rent 1s 10d, a day mowing, and a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
John Nixon for a Messuage and Tenement at Park, rent 1s 10d, a day mowing, and a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
William Nixon for a Messuage and Tenement at Elleryclough rent, a day mowing and for Carriages 1s.
George Nixon for a Messuage and Tenement at Elleryclough, rent 2s, a day shearing and Carriages 12d
John Nixon for a Messuage and Tenement at Elleryclough, rent 2s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Allan Routledge for a Tenement, without a house at Saughs, rent 3s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
George Armstrong a Messuage and Tenement at Stepins, rent 4s., a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 1s 6d.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Kirkbeck, rent 10s, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Camellflat, rent 6s 8d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
John Noble for a Messuage and Tenement at Kirkbeckmouth, rent 1s 8d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Elizabeth Noble, wife of John, for a Tenement, without a house, rent 8d, a horse as aforesaid.
John Scott for a Messuage and Tenement at Nunsclough, rent 5s, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
William Routledge for a Messuage and tenement at Nunsclough, rent 13d, a day mowing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Alexander Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Nunsclough, rent 6d, a day shearing.
Christopher routledge, in right of his wife Margaret, for a Messuage and Tenement at Bellbank, rent 2s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Elizabeth Purdum for a Messuage and tenement at B ellbank, rent 12d, a day mowing and a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
George Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Bellbank, rent 1s 8d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Robert Purdum for a Messuage and Tenement at Burnfoot, rent 16d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
William Forster for a Tenement at Close, rent 16d, and a horse as aforesaid
John Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Daplymoor, rent 12 d, a day shearing.
Dora'y Brown, widow, for a Messuage and Tenement at Daplymoor, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
William Routledge and Elizabeth his sister, for a Messuage and Tenement at Daplymoor, rent 12 d, a day shearing.
Robert Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Cumcrook, rent 2s 8d, a horse as aforesaid.
Andrew Dodgshon for a Messuage and Tenement at Dodgshonford, rent 3s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Robert Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinker-hill, rent 5s, a horse as aforesaid.
John Henderson for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinker-hill, rent 20d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Thomas routledge, son of George for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinkerhill, rent 20d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinkerhill, rent 2s, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Richard routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 7d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Rowland Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 7d, a day mowing, a day shearing, a horse as aforesaid.
Edward Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 2s 1d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Cuthbert routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 2s 8d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Durtup, rent 10d, the Charges of half a horse as aforesaid.


and this includes several tables that let me look at the owners of various properties. My line is reputed to have been at Oakshaw and four individuals are at Oakshaw of interest namely Richard Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, Edward Routledge and Rowland Routledge. This tells me that William Routledge thought to be the father of James Routledge who leaves to his grandson John Routledge Flatt in 1700 probably is the son of Richard, Cuthbert, Edward or Rowland since they are at Oakshaw and known to be the Oakshaw Routledge family. William Routledge (bc 1620) is the father of James Routledge, Thomas Routledge and Cuthbert Routledge.

Thomas Routledge (bc 1648) married Isobell Nixon and was the father of William Routledge (bc 1672 and died 1745 at Bewcastle) who married Grissell Routledge as his second wife 1704 at Bewcastle. They were the parents of Henry Routledge (baptized 30 Jul 1720 at Bewcastle - my 4x great grandfather).

It would be lovely to find the parents of Grissell Routledge (yet another Routledge line not even counted in the later group)!

George (father of Grace Routledge; mother of Elizabeth Routledge (my 3x great grandmother)) is also said to be of Oakshaw. He is descended from the younger Oakshaw Routledge family but to date I have not yet determined where George his likely father and George his likely grandfather fit in (the middle George being baptized 10 Mar 1692 at Bewcastle son of George).

Continuing with my OPC duties, I have received two requests for information on Bishops Nympton lately. The first was a simple no although I offered a couple of ideas and will now have to pull that information from the register when time permits. The second was easily found and I sent all the siblings, the parents (marriage) and the parent's burials. I usually get several of these requests a week but it has been slow since just before Christmas (luckily as I have been incredibly busy!).

I want to continue thinking about the Routledge family. When I learned that the Oakshaw Routledge family had married close cousins, I realized that I could potentially trace my line back with all the land documents that exist for the Bewcastle area. The missing parish registers though (i.e. before 1666) make the task somewhat more difficult than for parishes for which the registers exist. I need to read the Manor papers at some point to see what I can learn.

The Musgrave Letter is of interest - it does not list any Routledge at Oakshaw. Perhaps they were not involved in being Border Reivers.


Letter from Thomas Musgrave to Burghly on the Border Riders - Dec 1583

Name Location Alias Relation Raids mentioned in Killed/Died
Baley
John Rutledge Cructborne Killed pre 1583 by 'scottish ryders'
Gerrey Rutledge Son to above

Addame Rutledge Netecluge
Anton Rutledge Netecluge Oct 1583
Andrew Rutledge Netecluge

Rowlland Rutledge Neuk Dikes Rowe' Jan 1582, July 1583 1597
Jeme Rutledge Neuk

Jeme Rutledge Stubbe
Jeme Rutledge Stubbe Younge Jeme'
Jarre Rutledge Stubbe

Thome Rutledge Todhills Jan 1582, Jun 1581, 1581, Oct 1583
Allane Rutledge Todhills Oct 1582 Oct 1583

Dick Rutledge Baley heade
Thome Rutledge Baley heade

Down leven
John Rutledge Black dobs
Nicholl Rutledge Black dobs Brother to above
Andrew Rutledge Black Stafe'

Gourthe Rutledge (f) Sletbeke
Jeme Rutledge Sletbeke
(Nov 1592)
Will Ruttliedge Comcrauke (Nov 1592)
Riche Rutledge Comcrauke (Nov 1592)
Johne Rutledge Comcrauke 1590, (Nov 1592)
Jeme Rutledge Comcrauke aug 1583, (Nov 1592)

John Ruttlidge Troughead
Riche Rutledge Troughead
John Ruttlidge Troughead
Allen Rutledge Brother to above

Willi Rutlidge Lukkens
Willi Rutlidge Lukins Bellbank
Cleme Rutlidge Kyll

Jenkyn Rutledge Bellbank

Willi Rutlidge Nunscleugh

John Rutlidge Kermoflat

Will Rutledge Kyrkbekmouthe

Will Rutledge Sinkeheade

This letter of 1583 (21 years before the 1604 Land Survey of Bewcastle) lists the following members of the Routledge family:

John and Gerrey Routledge of Cructborne, Adam, Anton and Andrew Routledge of Netecluge, Rowland and Jeme Routledge of Neuk, Jeme, Jarre and Jeme's son Jeme of Stubbe, Thomas and Allan Routledge of Todhills, Richard and Thomas Routledge of Baleyheade, John and Nichol Routledge of Black Dobs, Andrew Routledge of Black Stafe, Gourthe and Jeme Routledge of Sletbeke, William, Richard, John, Jeme Routledge of Comcrauke, John, Richard, John and Allen Routledge of Troughhead, William Routledge of Lukkens, Clem Routledge of Kyll, Jenkyn Routledge of Bellbank, William Routledge of Nunscleugh, John Routledge of Kermoflat, William Routledge of Kyrkbekmouth, and William Routledge of Sinkhead. There are 35 Routledge males mentioned in this letter. Some are fathers and sons although not all entries give this information.

Another interesting text by T.H.B. Graham (reprint from the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian and Archaeological Society's Transactions Vol XI (New Series), 1911 - The Barony of Liddel and its Occupants. Page 56 gives us this information:

"Immediately adjoining the Forsters' Ground was a district traversed by the Baileywater and known as "the Bailey." It was held by the Routledges, who had formed so few alliances with Scottish families that they had become "every man's prey." John Routledge of Cructborne (Crookedburn) had been "slain by the Scottish riders." There were also Routledges of Netecleugh, of the Nook, the Stubb, Todhills and Baileyhead, where the "Routledge burn" still preserves the name of this Cumberland clan."

I think this group of Routledges were the ancestors of the Oakshaw Routledge family which held Stubb, Nook, Todhills and Baileyhead in the 1600s and 1700s. I wonder if they always held these properties amongst this set of Routledge families? Again the Manor papers will probably tell me the answer to that.

Again " The two rivers Level unite at a spot called the Black Dubs, and here was another colony of Routledges - John Routledge of the Black Dubs, Gourthe, i.e. George Routledge of Sleetbeck, Will Routledge of Comcrauke, John Routledge of Troughhead, and Willie Routledge of the "Luckens of Leven." " Are these two Routledge families related. I do not appear to have any ancestors in this group although the name George is, as always, very interesting but my George is supposed of the Oakshaw Routledge family.

Another publication found in the Transaction of the Cumberland and Westmoreland Antiquarian & Archaeological Society Art VIII, 1587-1617 by JV Harrison in 1967 entitled Five Routledge Wills:

JOHN ROUTLEDGE, Black Dubs, Bewcastle, held less than 15 acres but owned more than 50 head of cattle, mostly put out to pasture on other men’s farms. This had two advantages by placing cattle on farms that were understocked they had plenty of fodder and byres and it was also safer to scatter your cattle around farms because of border raids.

JAMES ROUTLEDGE, of the Ash had 42 beasts, as well and sheep and a horse and land consisting of 21 acres with cattle on other lands. Influencing the number of livestock kept was the provision of fodder and shelter in the way of byres. It was common in the high-lying districts to slaughter the cattle when there was a lack of fodder around Martinmas each year.

WILLIAM ROUTLEDGE, the younger of Todholes was a poor man. He owned his tenement but only three cows and three other cattle the total value of £3 5s. His hay and corn worth 10s. He prays that his unborn child will be a son and leaves him his sword, failing a boy he wishes his sword to go to his sister’s son, Edward Routledge.

Another poor man was WILLIAM ROUTLEDGE of Wickerthwaite, Stapleton. His goods were prized on 26 July 1620. Apparell 6s. Insight of his house 20d, crope of oates, bigg and hay 20s, five kyne and their calves £5. total £6 7s 8d. He owed debts amounting to £4 14s, Admon at Carlisle to his widow Rosamond 23 Oct 1620.

Cattle predominates over sheep, and black cattle more frequently mentioned probably akin to the Galloway breed, a small hardy breed. Black-belted ox stirk, black branded ox.

JOHN ROULEDGE will of 1632 of Daplemore, Stapleton contains a request of a bosaned meare

Livestock value in Bewcastle were lower than other parts of England. Their animals were probably smaller in comparison. Land was poor and holdings small and the tenants were “very rude and poor”.

Household furniture was almost non-existent. The houses very primitive. Bailey and Culley said “they are mostly built of mud and clay, and form a miserable contrast to the buildings in the other part of the county [View of the Agriculture of Cumberland, C. 1796]

JAMES ROUTLEDGE of the Bailey, household effects totaled £1 15s 4d

Most Borderers had an alias or second name distinct from their own surname. It distinguished men bearing the same surname and having the same Christian name. It coupled the man’s Christian name with some indication of his descent, place of residence, or some peculiarity in his appearance. Typical: cuddie’s John, Eckies demount, Thomas of the Eakeshawe, geordy of the utter hill, Andrewe rowtlidge alias blackstaffe and Ramish John’s Whinton.

Many burials took place within the Bewcastle Church and had to be greatly overcrowded.

JOHN ROUTLEDGE of the Dirtupp, will dated 19 May 1635 proved at Carlisle 29 July 1636 desired to be buried in the chancel of Bewcastle church. He directed his executrix topay “Doctor Sibson, parson there the duties thereunto belonging”. He also gave 2s 6d to the Church for the “reparation of the windowes thereof”.

Almost every person dwelling in Bewcastle was illiterate for the whole of the five wills and inventories only two men sign their own names. They were THOMAS MUSGRAVE, captain of Bewcastle and ANTHONY BAINES, clerk, both of whom witnessed the will of JOHN ROUTLEDGE of the black dubs [written in the hand of Baines].

The men of Bewcastle originally held their land by a kind of a military tenure. Many did not pay rents and was one of the reasons King James I wanted the Grahams sent to Ireland in the early 1600’s.

APPENDIX I:
WILL OF JOHN ROUTLEDGE of the Blackdubs 26 March 1587 , proved 19 May 1587
His master THOMAS MUSGRAVE £6 13s for the use of his children
Wife 29s to be taken of Peter Lambart and Mathew Kirsopp of the Fowersteenes
Brother NYCHOLL(‘S) wyffe one browne kowe in the hand of Clemy of the Flatt
Annas, sister one kowe of hir owne chowsinge
Cuddy Bell son my bowght land
Andrew Rowtlidge alias blackstaffe one kowday
Hob Rowtlidge of the myer one why in Wil Taler’s hand of the Herper Hill [Harper Hill, Stapelton]
Sibell Bell, the woman who kept my house six kine and eight Fower-year olds and three other nowlt
Tome Rowtlidge, oldest son Stedinge whereon I dwell with the command not to put out the woman who kept my house during her likinge
Thomas Rowtlidge, Cuddy Bell, Esabell Bell, children Rest of goods, moveable and unmoveable Joint Executors
Division made at the Seight of these four honest men viz. Clemy of the kill, Adam Story, Rychie Rowtlidge of Cumcrooke, and Will of the Croft
Witnesses: Thomas Musgrave, Adam x Story, Hob x Rowtlidge of the myer, Nycholl x Rowtlidge
Clerk: and written by Anthony Baines

Note of such money owed him and his nowlt that are in other mens hands:
Adam Storie £2
Ecke Noble £1 6s 8d
Geordy Pruddom £1 7s
Rychie Sowerby 15s
Johns Willy £1
Cuddies John of the Trough 15s
Joh. Murresse of Heskatt £1 6s 8d
Will & Christopher Sanderson £2 6s 8d
Geordy of the butter hill 12s
Jamy of the nuke 3s 4d
Peter Lambert £1
Mathew Kirsop £1
Jenkin Armstrong 6s [of Woodhead, LP?]
John of the kill 6s 6d
Josye bell 6s
Eckies demount 17s
Duke Stavely £16 13s 4d
Total: £33 13s 4d
A note of his cattle in other mens hands and att hiw owne howse

Eckies demount one ox & 8 other nowlt
Will Taler of the Herper hill one kow & one whye
Ecke Noble 0 blacke ox
Geordy of the hare hill one stott
Jeffray Robson of Kinge(water) [Lanercost, in addition to Kingwater thee was a farm called King Hill] 3 nowlt
John Robson of the saime 4 nowlt whereof one is a choise cow
Tome Steavenson 2 nowlt
Jenkin Armestronge [of Woodhead] 2 kine and one whit whie [white heifer]
Clemetts Adam 2 kine
Antony of the Pickes 2 stots and one whye
Cuddies John of the Trough 2 younge oxen
Ramish Johns Whinton one cowe and one ox
Geordy Pruddom 3 younge kine
Jamy of the nuke 3 whies
ARowye Ellot one kowe and one oxd
John of the kill one kowe and one ox
Thomas of the eakeshawe one ox
Att his owne howse 8 nowlt

Total xlxiii nowlt [?? I read this 40 13—maybe should have read xxxiii --33]

A note of such debts as John Rowtlidge confessed himself to be owinge:
John Woode 8s 4d
One in Carlisle 2s 4d
John Crowe 7s 4d

Will of Rowland Rutledge of the Newke [Nook], 22 March 1597
Adam Rutledge grandson s o Adam
Adam Rutledge son
Elizabeth Rutledge of the Crookeburne daughter of Gracie [Adam to marry Elizabeth when it pleaseth my maister Thomas Musgrave , Captaine of Bewcastle]
Adam & Elizabeth Rutledge all my title and claim of my tenement of the Newke which was in the occupation of Richard Rutledge my father with all houses, barnes, meadows and pastures
Richard Rutledge father
Thomas Rutledge s o Gracie Rutledge if Adam & Elizabeth die without issue the tenement and farmhold to go to Thomas & Gracie Rutledge
Thomas & Gracie Rutledge joint executors
Gracie Rutledge to have the land until Adam come to lawfull years
John Rutledge Witness
Dand Baylie Witness
George Armstrong Witness
John Rutledge husband of Gracie
Proved at Carlisle 7 Oct 1608 by John Rutlidge and Gracie his wife

Will of James Routledge of the Baileyhead 25 Apr 1612, Bewcastle, proved at Carlisle 10 Jul 1612 by Janet Rutledge his widow
Janet Rutledge wife all my lands & tenements that I have within the baley during her natural life, all goods moveable and immoveable and funeral expenses
Thomas Rutledge eldest son after Janet’s decease all the land of the baileyhead
Richard Rutledge second son after Janet’s decease the tenement called Sleetbecke and the tenement of the Nuke now in the tenor of Gawin Hamelton
James Rutledge son 40s paid by Thomas Rutledge, son
Rowland Rutledge son 40s paid by Thomas Rutledge, son
William Rutledge son 40 s paid by Richard Rutledge, son
John Rutledge son 40s pad by Richard Rutledge, son
William Rutledge Wit
Simon Rutledge Wit
George Rutledge Wit
Adam Rutledge Wit
Gerard Rutledge Wit
John Fleming with others Wit

6 July 1612 The Inventory of all goods and chattels of James Rutledge deceased prised by William Rutledge, Archilles [Archibald probably] Purdom and Simon Rutledge.
2 kine, and 2 calves 48s
2 kine and 2 calves 48s
2 oxen colour blacke 45s
2 first neates 40s
One gray nagge 30s
Ten ewes and lambs 40s
4 ewes 8s
3 yong sheep 6s
His apparel 13s 4d
One crooke and a kettle 5s
Saddle and bridle 3s
One brasse pot 13s 4d
Wooden vessels 4s
One chaire and a chest 3s
Sheets and bedding 10s
One stone of wooll 6s
Total: £16 2s 8d

Will of William Routledge, the younger, of Todholes, Bewcastle 27 Dec 1612, Proved at Carlisle, 26 Nov 1613

To be buried in the Church of Bucastle neere to the sepulcher of my father
Elizabeth Routlidge daughter all my tenement with the appurtenances thereunto belonging to Todholes, Bewcastle
Izabell Routlidge wife, with child, if child be a son then he shall have right of histenement abovevsayd
Edward Routlidge Nephew, sister’s son his sword if wife bore a son then he shall have the sword
Elizabeth & Izabel Routledge rest of all goods, moveable and immoveable
Elizabeth Routledge sole executrix proved 26 Nov 1613 by widow
James Routledge Wit
William Nixon Wit
William Burne Wit
George Nixon Wit
John Routledge Wit
Edward Routledge Wit
Christopher Nixon Wit
Proved at Carlisle, 26 Nov 1613

The Inventory of all goods and cattells (sic) of William Routlidge yonger of the parish of Bucastle deceased prised by Willilam Routlidge, James Routlidge, William Nixon and William Routlidge elder the 19 day of Nov 1612 [should read 1613]

2 oxen 40s
His apparel 25s
Corne and hay 5s
Insight 10s
One panne 4s
Total £4 5s 4d
Debts which the testator oweth
Alexander Nixon 33s 4d
Edward Routlidge 12d
Elizabeth, his sister 3s 4d

Will of James Routledge of the Ash, Bewcastle, undated, proved at Carlisle 17 Oct 1617
To be buried in the churchyard of Bewcastle
Thomas Routledge, of the Ash brother one black belted oxe strike
Richard Routledge of the Ash brother one red cowed quy
Elizabeth Foster sister black stott
Elenor Routeldge wife rest of goods and chattels moveable and unmoveable shared with children co-executor with eldest son Francis
Francis Routledge eldest son rest of goods and chattels moveable and unmoveable shared with Mother co-executor with mother
Elenor Routeldge daughter rest of goods and chattels moveable and unmoveable shared with Mother
James Routledge son rest of goods and chattels moveable and unmoveable shared with Mother
George Routledge son rest of goods and chattels moveable and unmoveable shared with Mother
Thomas Routledge friend, Wit
Archilles Routledge friend, Wit
Richard Foster friend, Wit
Cuthbert Routledge of Okeshaw friend, wit
Edward Routledge Wit
Richard Routledge wit

10 Oct 1617 The Inventory of all the goods and chattels of James Routledge of the ashe within the parish of Bewcastle deceased prised by John Foster, Quintyn Sowerby, Archilles Routledge and Thomas Routledge de kill
4 oxen £6
4 stottes £3
19 kine and 9 followers £24
A black mare 10s
Corne and hay 50s
17 hogges 42s 6d
His apparel 20s
One brasse pott and a pan 4s
2 tubbes, one kitt, dishes and other insight geare 15s
2 chaires, one crooke and a pare of tongs 2s
one plough, one wayne, one yoke and plough irons 2s 6d
2 kine in the hands of Ingram barnefather 53s 4d
Black quy in the hands of Thomas Henders on sleetbeck alias Johns Thom 26s
One cow in the hands of Thomas Sowerby 26s 4d
One oxe in the hands of John Routledge 26s 8d
In the hands of Thomas Routledge of Ashe 20s [doesn’t say what]
One black braded (sic) oxe 30s
Total £49 8s 4d

Debtes owinge by the deceased:
Edward Routledge of the Ash 2s
John Routledge of Kinkerhill 3s 4d
William Ellwood 3s
David Little 14s
John foster 6s 8d
George Foster 16s
Henry Browham 8s
For harvest work 9s 4d
For funeral expenses 11s 10d
Francis Urwen 15s 4d
Total £4 19s 6d



TERMINOLOGY: View of the Agriculture of Cumberland, Bailey & Culley
Bigg barley
Bosaned bausond, the mare was piebald or had white spots on a black or bay ground
Branded brindled, meaning of mixed color
Choise kowe outstanding animal
Cowda a small cow
Cowdie a small cow
Cowey hornless beast
Cowed quy red polled heifer
Haver oats
Hogges/hog young sheep between the age of weaning and first clipping
Insight household goods
Keb Ewe a ewe that has dropped a dead lamb
Kitt a barrel or tub usually with a lid
Kowday small or stunted polled animal of either sex, probably akin to the Gallowy breed.
Neates year-old cattle
Nowlt cattle
Ramish/rammish rough or violent, perhaps lusty. It also means rank or foul smelling
Skilling shelled oats
Stirke/stirk a young beast, formerly a year-old bullock
Stone of wool 16 lbs.
Stot bullock under 2 years
Why/whie spelt quey, a heifer

===============
These wills help to group the families and I did use this technique looking at them as mentioned above.

Interesting that in the will of James Routledge of the ASH (1617) he refers to Cuthbert Routledge of Okeshaw as his friend and witness. In his case he has brothers Thomas and Richard, sister Elizabeth Foster, wife is Elenor Routledge and children: Francis, Elenor, James, and George. Friends Thomas and Archilles Routledge (of Kill or is this Hill where my Thomas Routledge lived and was the father of my 4x great grandmother Grace Routledge) and witnesses Edward and Richard Routledge (also of Oakshaw perhaps as they occur below Cuthbert).

William Routledge in his will of 1612 is of Todholes and he mentions his wife Izabell Routledge (with child), Elizabeth his daughter and Edward Routledge his nephew (his sister's son). Witnesses include James Routledge, John Routledge and Edward Routledge.

James Routledge of the Bailey head (1612 will) names his wife Janet Routledge, his eldest son Thomas to inherit the Baileyhead, his second son Richard to inherit Sleetbecke and Nuke, James Routledge son, William Routledge son, John Routledge son. Witnesses included William Routledge, Simon Routledge, George Routledge, Adam Routledge and Gerard Routledge.

Rowland Routledge of the Newke (1597 will) names his son Adam Routledge and his grandson (son of Adam) Adam Routledge. Elizabeth Routledge of Crookeburne is the daughter of Gracie Routledge and he wishes his grandson Adam to marry Elizabeth and they will then have his tenement at Newke (was occupied by Rowland's father Richard Routledge). Gracie Routledge has a son Thomas. Witnesses include Gracie Routledge, John Routledge (husband of Grace Routledge).

John Routledge of the Blackdubs (will of 1587) mentions his wife but not by name. His brother Nycholl, his sister Annas Bell, his oldest son Thomas to inherit Stedinge. Mentions Andrew Routledge alias Blackstaffe, Hob (Robert) Routledge of Myer, Richard Routledge of Cumcrooke and William Routledge of the Croft.

I have a number of wills that I purchased five years ago and I think that I should now transcribe all of them to see if they provide any illumination on my Routledge families.

Tomorrow I shall begin work on that.

Blake and Routledge

I am finally back to looking at my family lines once again. I became distracted by an error in my Routledge family line on another tree where I have access on Ancestry. I decided to fix that for the individual and that got me started thinking about my Routledge lines once again.

My 2x great grandmother was Elizabeth Mary Ann Routledge daughter of Thomas Routledge and Elizabeth Routledge. Thomas was the son of Henry Routledge and Margaret Tweddle. Henry was the son of William Routledge and Grizzel Routledge. Elizabeth was the daughter of George Routledge and Grace Routledge. George was likely the son of George Routledge and Margaret Routledge. Grace was the daughter of Thomas Routledge and Mary Routledge. One can see the extent of the difficulty that I face with my Routledge lines. All of these families are from Bewcastle with the exception of the Tweddle line. They are from Lanercost. Occasionally marriages were at Lanercost instead of Bewcastle.

Lately I discovered that Grace Routledge and George Routledge were cousins because of a will by Archibald Forrester. They are also Oakshaw Routledge family along with Henry Routledge. The Oakshaw Routledge family married within their grouping and many of the marriages were first, second and third cousin marriages. I have not yet determined if this is accurate. The Oakshaw Routledge family was fairly large in the mid 1600s as is known from the 1604 Land Survey of Bewcastle and the 1641-42 Protestation Returns along with the Bewcastle quarters tax data.

I hadn't looked at the Dodgson Manuscript for a while and I have since acquired some new information on my Routledge lines. Looking at the Park Routledge family (known to be connected to my George/Grace Routledge line), I rather think that I have found a connection between the parents of these two along with several other Routledge lines. It would appear that George is descended from the Younger Oakshaw Routledge family that was at Todhills (he was born there). Thomas the father of Grace would appear to be a brother to the father of George. Hence they would be first cousins. Elizabeth their daughter was also considered an Oakshaw Routledge but she would at most be a second cousin or perhaps third to Thomas Routledge (son of Henry Routledge and Margaret Tweddle). I will continue to investigate the will with respect to the Dodgson Manuscript.

Carlisle Record Office Will of Archibald FORRESTER of Cleughside, Bewcastle [Bc] 1767, pg 63.
Grace Forrester, deceased poss. The mother of John Routledge
John Forrester, Wit
Adam Routledge s o Mary, Wid
George Routledge, of Oakshaw, Bc, father of 2 children
Grace Routledge, daughter of [d o ] Mary Routledge, Wid
Henry Routledge, s o Mary R*
Henry Routledge of Borderrigg, dec., father of 3 children
John Routledge s o Mary R*, Wid
John Routledge, my "sister's son, possibly s o Grace
Leondard Routledge of Oakshaw
Mary Routledge of Crossgreens or Strandsheads, Wid, mother of Grace, Mary, Adam, John & Henry
Mary Routledge, d o Mary, Wid
William Routledge of Oakshaw, deceased, father of William R*
William Routledge of Oakshaw s o late William Routledge
Francis Armstrong, Wit
Catherine Dowglass of Ash w o Thomas Douglas
Thomas Dowglass [sic Douglas] of Ash husband of Catherine
Catherine Henderson d o Robert & Helenor Henderson
Helenor Henderson wife of Robert and mother of Catherine
Robert Henderson husband of Helenor & father of Catherine
Alexander Kennedie of Cleughside, Friend husband of Sibella
Catherine Kennedie of Cleughside, d o Alexander
Elizabeth Kennedie of Cleughside
John Kennedie of Cleughside s o Alexander
Sibella Kennedie of Cleughside w o Alexander
William Kennedie of Cleughside s o Alexander

The Blake family has also returned to a high interest point. I have been discussing the yDNA study with Barrie Blake who has a wonderful set of pages on the Blake family

http://blakeheritage.synthasite.com/blake-family-dna-project.php

I admit my strong interest is in the DNA study and one individual who belongs to the same haplogroup and has the same unusual first 5 markers and then three more that match. The differences are in fast moving markers with the exception of one. Since this individual is likely separated from me by more than 7 generations and possibly is a descendant of the Wiltshire Blake family, I am really hopeful that he/she will have the markers extended to 67. The study has already shown the distinct Norfolk lines (2 with a known NPE) and then another English grouping (also found in Ireland) and perhaps this is the Richard Caddell line which underwent a name change in Ireland to Blake. There are a number of Irish lines and the origin of them is unknown although some of them could be the Galway Blake family. That they have fallen into neat categories (30 samples) is quite fascinating in itself.

Tomorrow I shall continue to look at the Routledge family.

Emails

I had managed to accumulate nearly 400 emails in my inbox due to the busyness of the Wedding, Christmas and then January itself proved to be incredibly busy with our daughter doing her research time here and loose ends to tie up after the wedding. February has entered into my life with a feeling of freedom although we are spending some time with the dogs just to help out during the winter. It is harder in the winter to handle dogs I have decided. They are enjoying running in our back yard though.

I have now acquired about 80 emails with accurate map readings for parish churches in Hampshire to put into Genuki. That is a project that I need to accomplish plus making corrections to my existing data (I need to convert the pages differently to display the parish register data that I have received). I suspect this task will take me a couple of days and I am beginning to wonder if I am the best person to do the Hampshire Genuki webpages. I will add a note to the pages looking for a volunteer to assist me and eventually take over from me. Although enthusiastic initially, the task has overwhelmed me and it really does need to have a person local to Hampshire I think to run it effectively. Part of the cause is my life activities. I was not very busy in terms of nonworking hours when I took it on a few years ago but since then my life activities have increased probably 50 fold (and I was ill last year) and finding free time has become more and more of a problem. I am gradually withdrawing from many of my commitments as it becomes possible.

A few new additions to my ancestry trees and I sent a correction off to a member that has given me access to correct the parents of Margaret Routledge married to Thomas Carling (their son was Sir John Carling, Minister of Agriculture, etc in Canada in the 1800s). Margaret was a sister to my Mary Routledge married to Robert Gray. I continue to hunt out Routledge information and have managed to take Grace (one of my four great grandparents in this line) back another generation with a will and her parents were Thomas Routledge of Hill, Bewcastle and Mary Routledge of Kirkbeckstown. A little digging will probably give me their parents as well but time hasn't presented itself for me to do that.

I promised myself another dusting day so will soon quit my computer for that task but first my 20 minute workout. I wonder sometimes how long I can do my daily 20 minutes of aerobics. I have been doing this particular group of exercises since my brother had his heart attack in 1982/83 which is really a long time now when I look back. I suspect that I shall be able to continue doing them for another ten years anyway and perhaps longer.

The image out the window of the snow covering is quite beautiful in the sun. It is a fairly warm February for us here (only minus 10 degrees celsius). Really it has been a gentle winter thus far. But our heavy snows tend to come in March when the weather is warmer. Cold winter days do not necessarily create a deep snowfall - just a permanent one until the warmer days of April start melting it!

Noel and Rouillard families

I decided to work on another family for a relative of our son in law which is the family of Napoléon Noel and Ernestine Rouillard. They married 23 Oct 1906 at Ste Agathe. From their marriage lines I was able to obtain the names of their parents.

Parents of Napoléon Noel were: Jean Noel and Célina Hély dite Bréton. The date of their marriage was 4 Apr 1868 also at Ste Agathe.

Parents of Ernestine Rouillard were: Etienne Rouillard and Geneviève Hély dite Bréton. the date of their marriage was 9 Sep 1861 at St-Anselme.

Célina and Geneviève were sisters. Their parents were: Pierre Hély dit Bréton and Marie Louise Roy. They married 7 Oct 1828 at St Henri, Lauzon. The marriage lines for Pierre and Marie Louise listed their parents.

Parents of Pierre Hély dit Bréton were: Pierre Hély dit Bréton and Josephte Morin. They married 29 Jul 1805 at St Henri, Lauzon. Their parents were: André Hély dit Bréton and Marie Marguerite Roi and Jacques Morin and Marie Anne Gendron.

At this point I decided to go back and search out the later marriages in this family line.

The parents of Jean Noel (married to Célina Hély dite Bréton 4 Apr 1868) were Joseph Noel and Catherine Bourgault. They married 8 Jun 1825 at Ste Claire. Their parents were listed in the marriage lines.

Parents of Joseph Noel were Louis Noel and Marie Zacharie Cloutier. They married 24 Jan 1780 at St Joseph de la Pointe de Lévis, Lauzon.

Parents of Catherine Bourgault were Jean Baptiste Bourgault and Christine Carbonneau. They married I think 30 Sep 1803 at Berthier-en-Bas - his name was listed as Bourgot (I will need to verify).

Looking at the marriage of Louis Noel and Marie Zacharie Cloutier I found their parents on the marriage lines of their 1780 marriage.

Parents of Louis Noel were Pierre Noel and Marie Bilodeau. They married 11 Nov 1748 at Ste Famille, Ile d'Orleans.

Parents of Marie Zacharie Cloutier were Zacharie Cloutier and Marie Madeleine Josephte Duquet. They married 6 Jun 1763 at St Joseph de Beauce.

I continued working on the Noel family. The marriage lines for Pierre Noel and Marie Bilodeau listed their parents.

Parents of Pierre Noel were Michel Noel and Marguerite Agnes Garand. They married 22 Feb 1713 at St Pierre de la Riviere du Sud.

Parents of Marie Bilodeau were François Billaudeau and Marie Boché. They married 7 Apr 1717 at Ste Famille, Ile d'Orleans. I shall follow their parents at a later date; all were born in New France. Parents of Francois Billaudeau were Antoine Billaudeau and Geneviève Turcot and Guillaume Boché and Marie Asselin. I have not yet pulled out their marriages from Drouin.

I continued with Michel Noel and Marguerite Agnes Garand. They married 22 Feb 1713 at St Pierre de la Riviere du Sud. Their parents were entered on the marriage lines.

Parents of Michel Noel were François Noel and Nicole Legrand and Pierre Garand Catherine Labreque. I have not yet extracted their marriages from Drouin.

I then returned to the second daughter of Pierre Hély dit Bréton who had married Etienne Rouillard 9 Sep 1862.

The parents of Etienne Rouillard were listed on the marriage lines for this couple.

Parents of Etienne Rouillard were Noel Rouillard and Anastasie Turgeon. They married 5 Feb 1833 at St Henri, Lauzon. Their parents were listed on their marriage lines.

Parents of Noel Rouillard were Noel Rouillard and Magdeline Fortier. They married 1 Oct 1810 at St Henri, Lauzon. Their parents were listed as Etienne Rouillard and Marie Roy and François Fortier and Marie-Anne Gagnier. Their marriage dates are not yet extracted.

Parents of Anastasie Turgeon were Jean-Baptiste Turgeon and Marguerite Fontaine. This marriage eludes me at the moment. There is an entry on World Connect which shows their marriage at Lévis 4 Apr 1796 but I haven't been able to locate it in the Drouin Records. I will continue with that in a couple of days.

Today is a dusting day. I have put it off for far too long!

Continuing Siderfin-Greenslade-Wheedon families

I also corresponded two days ago with a Wheedon-Greenslade family researcher. He has corrected my original thought that William Greenslade was the son of Francis (b 1750) and the son of John Greenslade and Margaret Wheedon. This particular William is accounted for in his study as having emigrated! I then returned to the drawing board and located another William son of Francis with a son Francis baptized in 1809. The Francis on the census with William in 1841 is 25 but the dates were rounded down so perhaps this is the William that I am looking for and will do more searching to determine if that is true. That pretty much cleared out the Wheedon connection except for Joan (daughter of John Siderfin and Joan Greenslade) marrying Thomas Wheedon whose connection back I have clarified. Joan Greenslade married to John Siderfin is a sister to the Francis above and that would mean that their grandchildren married as a second marriage for William late in life and for Mary as a first marriage when she was 57 years old. There were no children resulting from this marriage.

I had wondered whether the Greenslade families were related and that clarification is interesting. Since the Greenslade family had married into the Wheedon family earlier perhaps this was the impetus for the later Siderfin - Wheedon marriage with Joan Greenslade Siderfin's nephew marrying one of her daughters.

Today I am working on the research study as I need to determine how to readily submit samples to GenBank.

Backing up material

I decided to back up my files yesterday and was somewhat surprised to discover that I have, in the last couple of weeks of researching our son-in-law's family downloaded 4 GB of images. Certainly my file system has greatly enlarged with 84 sub-folders as compared to just eight sub-folders a couple of weeks ago. Every folder has a number of images amounting in total to 4.44 GB. I haven't reached a point where I have any text documents in any of these folders - still gathering information from ancestry.

I have a couple of lines that elude me and I expect it will be a lot of parish register reading to find the items. I will go to Library and Archives Canada one of these days to have a look at the Family Histories that have been submitted to them. For the most part I have been working on virgin territory for many of his lines back into the late 1700s. At that point I am picking up work submitted to ancestry or world connect or family webpages that have assisted me. I continue to check out each reference but there is some really good work out there on French Canadian lines.

I also want to go to the Library at Ottawa University to check out their French Canadian historical material. I am still very new to French Canadian Research and do not know all the records available to me to work on his lines. He has many many marriages in Quebec City and Montreal in the mid 1600s. He has many many soldiers in his lines. The latest I discovered the other day was Féréole Doutre who arrived in the later part of the 1750s probably in the troop increase allotment due to the Seven Years War with England in which Québec was ultimately signed over to the English in exchange for colonies in the West Indes.

Féréole married Marie Cecile Forgette dite Despatie 28 Feb 1775 at Terrebonne. Finding Marie Cecile Forgette dite Despatie proved to be a challenge but fortunately the priest recorded the parents of both in the marriage lines.

Parents of Féréole Doutre were Joseph D'Outre and Francisca Sobraques married in France.

Parents of Marie Cecile Forgette dite Despatie were Jean Baptiste Despatie dit Forgette and Marie-Anne Ménard (and this is the first record of the Ménard family in this family grouping). Jean Baptiste and Marie-Anne married 29 Oct 1738 at Ste Famille, Boucherville.

On the marriage registration of Jean Baptiste Despatie dit Forgette and Marie-Anne Ménard the priest recorded the parents of this couple and it is here that the names switched (i.e. Despatie dit Forgette).

Parents of Jean Baptiste Despatie dit Forgette were Jean Baptiste Forgette and Jeanne Beaudouin. Jean Baptiste and Jeanne married 22 Nov 1700 at Repentigny.

Again I was able to extract the names of their parents from the Parish Register.

Parents of Jean Baptiste Forgette were Nicolas Forgette dite Despatie and Marie Madeleine Martin. Nicolas and Marie Madeleine married 6 Feb 1653 at Québec City and their parents were recorded in the Parish Register.

Parents of Nicolas Forgette dite Despatie were Paul Forgette and Nicole Chevalier of Alençon France.

Parents of Marie Madeleine Martin were Abraham Martin and Marguerite Langlois who were also married in France.

This repeats some of my post of the other day but I wanted to go through it all again and I find that easier to do on my blog so that I do not lose any of the details that I have collected. I work on so many lines it is easy to misplace details if I am away from one particular line for a few days or weeks. That was my reason to start blogging although the last couple of months I have blogged less frequently, I will likely go back to my daily blog once again.

Looking at the parents of Jeanne Beaudouin who had married Jean Baptiste Despatie dit Forgette 22 Nov 1700 at Repentigny, the priest listed them as Jean Baudouyn and Charlotte Chauvin (born 5 Apr 1651 Montréal) and they married 27 Nov 1663 at Notre-Dame Montréal.

Parents of Jean Baudouyn were Jean Baudouyn and Jeanne Berthet.

Parents of Charlotte Chauvin were Michel Chauvain and Anne Archambault who had married 27 Jul 1647 at Notre-Dame, Québec. The priest had listed the names of their parents in France.

Michel Chauvain's parents were Gabriel Chauvain and Marie Arouard.

Anne Archambault's parents were Jacques Archambault and Françoise Toros.

Going back now to Marie-Anne Ménard who had married Jean Baptiste Despatie dit Forgette 29 Oct 1738 at Ste Famille Boucherville, the priest listed her parents on the marriage lines.

Parents of Marie-Anne Ménard were Louis Ménard dit Lafontaine and Marie Anne Février who married 12 Dec 1691 at Boucherville. The parents of this couple were listed on the marriage lines.

Parents of Louis Ménard dit Lafontaine were Jacques Ménard dit Lafontaine and Catherine Fovether (sp).

Parents of Marie Anne Février were Kristoffe Février and Marie Martin. I found the second marriage of Kristoffe a couple of years after the birth of Marie Anne Février 22 Jun 1676 at Boucherville. I have not yet found his first marriage with Marie Martin. This is the second Martin in this time frame Marie Madeleine Martin married Nicolas Forgette dite Despatie 6 Feb 1653 at Québec.

The Forgette family had eluded me for some time until I noticed the Despatie dit name and then I was able to quickly move back. I may attempt a look at the French records to see if I am able to learn anything about Joseph Doutre and his wife Francisca Sobraques parents of Féréole Doutre who arrived in New France towards the end of the 1750s as a soldier. He died 29 Mar 1824 at the Hopital général des Soeurs Grises in Montréal.

Again I am looking at the Olivier Gagnon line. He married Josephte Doutre (grand daughter of Féréole Doutre) 26 Jun 1844 at Saint-Luc, Curran, Prescott, Ontario. His death registration states that he was born at Berthier in 1811. I decided to have a look at the registers and found an Olivier Genton baptized there 17 May 1810 with parents Joseph Genton and Elizabeth Moreau. However Gagnon is quite aways from Genton I rather think. I shall have to continue checking. I also noted that in his burial lines the priest has mentioned that he was almost 90 years old when he was buried 13 Mar 1900. This would make the 17 May 1810 date quite interesting. But why would he change his name from Genton to Gagnon. Was it an enumerator error? Would Olivier had spoken with an accent that made Genton sound like Gagnon? Considering they would have been English speaking enumerators in the Plantagenent area this could be a possibility. However, I will keep it on the backburner whilst I hunt out other possibilities. Finding their marriage lines is a high priority since the priest would likely have been French speaking and would have spelled his surname correctly.