I like using Ancestry; I like their search engine as I can get lots of variety in spelling. I also like their DNA. I had settled into a pattern using DNA at Ancestry and their latest change certainly blew that up to put it mildly! But with a few more days of thinking about it I have altered how I look at Ancestry. I had been creating Excel charts to look at my matches for both my husband's accounts and my own accounts. I can see that I could stop doing that and put everything online in my charting. Of course one always wishes that they had started out with this idea but it is never too late to make revisions. It just takes time. I am using the groups function which I had pretty much ignored after it was brought it a few months back. The 24 colours for groups is nice but could be expanded to 32 just to give even more flexibility. I do have some matches that can clearly be linked back solely to one 3x great grandparents' sibling (and more than one of those).
Lately a new cousin came onto my 23 and Me account which has permitted me to verify my Chromosome 23 phasing for my grandparents. What a relief that was as I had rather thought it was correct but some items just did not fit. Reading comments on Chromosome 23 and regarding anything less than 20 cM match as "unsure" I gradually came to the conclusion that this Chromosome is very sturdy and can carry lengths through many generations. For instance this new length that I have (as does one of my brothers thus limiting the match to my mother's side) is 20.2 centimorgans. Although I do not know this individual; and she did not respond to my message, she is matching known Cheatle lines. Sarah Cheatle was my 3x great grandmother and she married William Welch. Their daughter Ann married Henry Christopher Buller. Then their son Edwin Denner Buller married Ellen Taylor. My maternal grandmother thus inherited from her father a blended Chromosome 23 which he had received from his mother Ann Welch and would include both Welch and Cheatle. This discovery very much confirms my phasing and places new emphasis on not using lengths of less than 20 cM to phase the 23rd chromosome. I do have several lengths that one might think would let you establish that a length had come from a particular ancestor. I have overlap with some of my mother's ancestors on her father's side and her mother's side in terms of location which had not really occurred to me until I started to phase the 23rd chromosome.
The other excitement on this Cheatle match is my inability to clearly link my Cheatle line with the other Cheatle lines at Ashby de la Zouch. With these matches I am now in the thought process that my William Cheatle married to Sarah unknown and baptizing my 3x great grandmother Sarah Cheatle at Ashby de la Zouch in 1795 likely married again in the early 1800s as these matches link back to a William Cheatle at Ashby de la Zouch but not to the mother of Sarah Cheatle.
Showing posts with label 23 and Me. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 23 and Me. Show all posts
Sunday, July 7, 2019
Wednesday, December 19, 2018
Genesis (upgrade from Gedmatch)
All of my kits have been converted to Genesis now and about half of them are research only so do not form part of any searches except my own. I have 21 matches with my Living DNA kit to other Living DNA kits on Genesis. Only three have a longest length of 12 cM or greater and only one is particularly significant at 25.7 cM. I match this individual at Ancestry and FT DNA. Like myself, they have tested at a number of sites but I can not yet locate her in my tree although I suspect endogamy in this case and the match is likely much further back than the length of the match would indicate.
I need to look at the other kit that that I have which was tested at Living DNA to see how many Living DNA matches there are.
2nd kit of interest: 16 matches with just one with a longest length of 12 cM or greater. At 13.9 cM it does not catch a great deal of interest from me as I really do not look a lot at matches of less then 15 cM. This match is on chromosome 17 between 5836860 and 10226337. Looking at my list for Chromosome 17 this is one that is only shared by this one sibling.
I always look at all of my matches with the thought that knowing I have 23,000 matches at Ancestry in their database of over 11 million (0.2% of their database) and that I have only 245 matches which are 4th to 6th cousin or less (0.002% of their database), I probably shouldn't expect to have too many matches in databases that are much smaller!
At FT DNA I have 2082 matches and 190 are 3rd to 5th cousin or less and their database is less than one million. Say it was one million then I have 0.2% of their databases as total matches and 0.02% of their database as 3rd to 5th cousin or less.
At 23 and Me which has a database of over 5 million I have 998 matches (0.02% of their database). I have 332 matches that are third to sixth cousin or less (0.007% of their database). I tend to know who these individuals are if they match me at least 0.50% but not always.
I am not that really surprised that I have only sibling matches at Living DNA. My father was an only child so no first cousins. His mother only had half-siblings so do have some half-first cousins. His father had eleven siblings but very few nieces and nephews except his eldest sister had a large family but thus far none have tested. My mother was born in Canada. She had just one brother and he did not have any children. Her father was virtually an only child as none of his full siblings survived to adulthood. He did have a half-sister but none of her descendants have tested. Her mother did have four siblings but thus far none of their descendants have tested as they would be my second cousins.
I need to look at the other kit that that I have which was tested at Living DNA to see how many Living DNA matches there are.
2nd kit of interest: 16 matches with just one with a longest length of 12 cM or greater. At 13.9 cM it does not catch a great deal of interest from me as I really do not look a lot at matches of less then 15 cM. This match is on chromosome 17 between 5836860 and 10226337. Looking at my list for Chromosome 17 this is one that is only shared by this one sibling.
I always look at all of my matches with the thought that knowing I have 23,000 matches at Ancestry in their database of over 11 million (0.2% of their database) and that I have only 245 matches which are 4th to 6th cousin or less (0.002% of their database), I probably shouldn't expect to have too many matches in databases that are much smaller!
At FT DNA I have 2082 matches and 190 are 3rd to 5th cousin or less and their database is less than one million. Say it was one million then I have 0.2% of their databases as total matches and 0.02% of their database as 3rd to 5th cousin or less.
At 23 and Me which has a database of over 5 million I have 998 matches (0.02% of their database). I have 332 matches that are third to sixth cousin or less (0.007% of their database). I tend to know who these individuals are if they match me at least 0.50% but not always.
I am not that really surprised that I have only sibling matches at Living DNA. My father was an only child so no first cousins. His mother only had half-siblings so do have some half-first cousins. His father had eleven siblings but very few nieces and nephews except his eldest sister had a large family but thus far none have tested. My mother was born in Canada. She had just one brother and he did not have any children. Her father was virtually an only child as none of his full siblings survived to adulthood. He did have a half-sister but none of her descendants have tested. Her mother did have four siblings but thus far none of their descendants have tested as they would be my second cousins.
Sunday, January 7, 2018
Find My Past
I have been a user/subscriber of Find My Past since 2009 and continue to really like this site. I subscribe because it is just easier to always have it at my fingertips whenever I am doing a standard search for anything (in my case all my ancestry is from England thus far on paper). Now that all the big search companies have taken on DNA projects I wonder if Find My Past will make that leap as well. It would be interesting to see Living DNA work with Find My Past I must admit and just wanted to throw that thought into the wind.
I have two sets of results at Living DNA - one for myself and one for one of my brothers (he kindly volunteered to do that as he has with all the other testing that I have done - AncestryDNA, FT DNA, My Heritage, 23 and Me, Britains DNA (no longer operating and they bought Ethnoancestry which I had also tested my brother at years ago; I also did a complete workup at BritainsDNA for him), National Genographic Project and Sorenson. He and I have done a lot of testing through the years since we first got into DNA testing in 2005. I await one set of results I have waited for for a long time - Big Y. I always meant to just buy it but then something else would come up for testing and I just didn't do it but now I await those results. We already know from all of these testing companies that our yDNA is quite ancient to the British Isles. This will simply give me more detail in that regard than I have from National Genographic Project and Britains DNA.
The results at Ancestry from autosomal DNA testing have been really useful (especially in my husband's case but gradually as more and more English people test I am getting close matches). I have subscribed to Ancestry since 2004 and find it to be a very valuable service as well although generally more so in my husband's research but they do have some databases not on Find My Past.
My Heritage is also a very interesting service and the addition of DNA testing there may prove to be very handy as well. I think the option of just having it along with matching is a great service. I have been a subscriber to My Heritage since 2013 when we went to Who Do You Think You Are 2013 Live in London, UK. My husband has found a number of useful searches there with his European ancestry - namely Germany, France, The Netherlands and Denmark.
I used to buy fiche from the various Record Offices in England and then read them in a microfiche reader but I must admit it is a lot nicer to have these services create their large databases of all this material with a link to the original page. At 72 it saves me a lot of time and saves my eyes for other close detail work.
I have two sets of results at Living DNA - one for myself and one for one of my brothers (he kindly volunteered to do that as he has with all the other testing that I have done - AncestryDNA, FT DNA, My Heritage, 23 and Me, Britains DNA (no longer operating and they bought Ethnoancestry which I had also tested my brother at years ago; I also did a complete workup at BritainsDNA for him), National Genographic Project and Sorenson. He and I have done a lot of testing through the years since we first got into DNA testing in 2005. I await one set of results I have waited for for a long time - Big Y. I always meant to just buy it but then something else would come up for testing and I just didn't do it but now I await those results. We already know from all of these testing companies that our yDNA is quite ancient to the British Isles. This will simply give me more detail in that regard than I have from National Genographic Project and Britains DNA.
The results at Ancestry from autosomal DNA testing have been really useful (especially in my husband's case but gradually as more and more English people test I am getting close matches). I have subscribed to Ancestry since 2004 and find it to be a very valuable service as well although generally more so in my husband's research but they do have some databases not on Find My Past.
My Heritage is also a very interesting service and the addition of DNA testing there may prove to be very handy as well. I think the option of just having it along with matching is a great service. I have been a subscriber to My Heritage since 2013 when we went to Who Do You Think You Are 2013 Live in London, UK. My husband has found a number of useful searches there with his European ancestry - namely Germany, France, The Netherlands and Denmark.
I used to buy fiche from the various Record Offices in England and then read them in a microfiche reader but I must admit it is a lot nicer to have these services create their large databases of all this material with a link to the original page. At 72 it saves me a lot of time and saves my eyes for other close detail work.
Tuesday, August 29, 2017
Comparison of ethnicity over several testing companies
Looking at my ethnicity testing over several companies. My Living DNA Results have really proven to be significant in my trek backwards and leading up to that test was the presence of Irish DNA in other testing companies results. I always knew that I would test primarily British Isles and would anticipate being strongly from the counties of England since all of my ancestry back many generations in some lines and at least back into the mid 1700s in most lines is English.
That does support my idea that I am primarily English many generations back but other companies have picked up a European component and I might assume that it is fairly ancient because of matches that I have with people living in European countries with lengthy trees dating back there. I still have my Christopher Buller who lived circa 1764 to 1832 mostly in the Bermondsey Surrey area and close to Tooley Street, Bermondsey Lane and Long Lane whose parents are a mystery. His Slop Shop was on Tooley Street; slops being the name for the uniform that sailors wore. With a name like Buller one might think that he is descendant of the Buller family of Somerset or perhaps of Warwickshire (are they the same family? have not yet found that link) but I can not find a link back to either of these families for Christopher. The hint of European and my DNA matches with people of German ancestry (and no other) led to to wonder if the name was anglicized from Buehler to Buller. That still remains a thought as immigration from Germany to England was ongoing especially during the times of the Georges (George I, George II, and George III in particular). This family also was involved in the confectionary business in Birmingham lending more credence to this thought as early German immigrants to London were in the confectionary business.
The Irish ancestry is interesting as some claim that my Charley/Charlie line (my 4x great grandmother Mary (Charlie) Pincombe)) was Irish but this is too strong at Living DNA to just be the influence of Mary one would think! As a 4th great grandmother she would contribute slightly more than 1.5% on average so I do have to keep her in the back of my memory but in general this does look like my maternal grandmother's mother who also quite handily carried my mitochondrial DNA which is passed on to me. The mitochondrial DNA H11a2a1 in the Blood of the Isles Database was found in Ayrshire/Argyllshire Scotland and Northern Ireland. Hence my thoughts did quickly go back to her.
The Scandinavian component (Germanic perhaps) has been picked up by most testing companies in various percentages ranging from a high of 37% to a low of 0%. Certainly the east coast of England has a component of Germanic races and I do have Yorkshire ancestry but always suspected it was a long way back. I still think that but I do have matches come in for fifth cousins or greater who live in Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland and have, where they have family charts dating back for a long time.
Living DNA
Great Britain and Ireland 96.5%
South Central England 31.7%
Central England 14.6%
Devon 14.6%
Southeast England 7.2%
South Yorkshire 5.4%
Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 4.8%
Northumbria 4%
Northwest England 3.5%
North Yorkshire 3.5%
South England 2.7%
Aberdeenshire 2.5%
Lincolnshire 2%
Europe (North and West) 3.5%
Scandinavia 3.5%
Ancestry DNA
Great Britain 64%
Ireland 14%
Europe West 11%
Scandinavia 6%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Europe East (less than)1%
Italy/Greece (less than) 1%
Finland/Northwest Russia (less than) 1%
Melanesia (less than) 1%
FT DNA
West and Central Europe 46%
British Isles 38%
Scandinavia 12%
West Middle East (less than) 1%
Finland (less than) 1%
Oceania (less than) 1%
National Genographic
British Isles 48%
Germany 33%
Southern Europe/Middle East 19%
My Heritage
English 53.4%
Scandinavian 33.3%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 2.1%
Iberian 10.3%
Italian 0.9%
23 and Me
British and Irish 54.7%
French and German 15%
Scandinavian 2%
Broadly northwestern European 26.9%
Broadly southern European 0.3%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.2%
Broadly European 0.7%
Broadly Oceanian (less than) 1%
North African (less than) 1%
23 and Me offers an interesting Ancestry Timeline with their ethnicity reporting which places all of my Ashkenazi Jewish, Oceanian, North African ancestry as dating back to a 4th to 7th or greater grandparent likely born between 1680 and 1770. My Scandinavian ancestry from a 4th to 6th grandparent born between 1710 and 1800. My French and German ancestry from a great grandparent to a 3x grandparent born between 1800 and 1860. My British and Irish ancestry from a parent, grandparent or great grandparent born between 1860 and 1920 and of course my father was born in 1904 in Eastleigh, Hampshire, England (and three of my grandparents were born in England in 1875, 1876 and 1886).
That does support my idea that I am primarily English many generations back but other companies have picked up a European component and I might assume that it is fairly ancient because of matches that I have with people living in European countries with lengthy trees dating back there. I still have my Christopher Buller who lived circa 1764 to 1832 mostly in the Bermondsey Surrey area and close to Tooley Street, Bermondsey Lane and Long Lane whose parents are a mystery. His Slop Shop was on Tooley Street; slops being the name for the uniform that sailors wore. With a name like Buller one might think that he is descendant of the Buller family of Somerset or perhaps of Warwickshire (are they the same family? have not yet found that link) but I can not find a link back to either of these families for Christopher. The hint of European and my DNA matches with people of German ancestry (and no other) led to to wonder if the name was anglicized from Buehler to Buller. That still remains a thought as immigration from Germany to England was ongoing especially during the times of the Georges (George I, George II, and George III in particular). This family also was involved in the confectionary business in Birmingham lending more credence to this thought as early German immigrants to London were in the confectionary business.
The Irish ancestry is interesting as some claim that my Charley/Charlie line (my 4x great grandmother Mary (Charlie) Pincombe)) was Irish but this is too strong at Living DNA to just be the influence of Mary one would think! As a 4th great grandmother she would contribute slightly more than 1.5% on average so I do have to keep her in the back of my memory but in general this does look like my maternal grandmother's mother who also quite handily carried my mitochondrial DNA which is passed on to me. The mitochondrial DNA H11a2a1 in the Blood of the Isles Database was found in Ayrshire/Argyllshire Scotland and Northern Ireland. Hence my thoughts did quickly go back to her.
The Scandinavian component (Germanic perhaps) has been picked up by most testing companies in various percentages ranging from a high of 37% to a low of 0%. Certainly the east coast of England has a component of Germanic races and I do have Yorkshire ancestry but always suspected it was a long way back. I still think that but I do have matches come in for fifth cousins or greater who live in Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland and have, where they have family charts dating back for a long time.
Living DNA
Great Britain and Ireland 96.5%
South Central England 31.7%
Central England 14.6%
Devon 14.6%
Southeast England 7.2%
South Yorkshire 5.4%
Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 4.8%
Northumbria 4%
Northwest England 3.5%
North Yorkshire 3.5%
South England 2.7%
Aberdeenshire 2.5%
Lincolnshire 2%
Europe (North and West) 3.5%
Scandinavia 3.5%
Ancestry DNA
Great Britain 64%
Ireland 14%
Europe West 11%
Scandinavia 6%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Europe East (less than)1%
Italy/Greece (less than) 1%
Finland/Northwest Russia (less than) 1%
Melanesia (less than) 1%
FT DNA
West and Central Europe 46%
British Isles 38%
Scandinavia 12%
West Middle East (less than) 1%
Finland (less than) 1%
Oceania (less than) 1%
National Genographic
British Isles 48%
Germany 33%
Southern Europe/Middle East 19%
My Heritage
English 53.4%
Scandinavian 33.3%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 2.1%
Iberian 10.3%
Italian 0.9%
23 and Me
British and Irish 54.7%
French and German 15%
Scandinavian 2%
Broadly northwestern European 26.9%
Broadly southern European 0.3%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.2%
Broadly European 0.7%
Broadly Oceanian (less than) 1%
North African (less than) 1%
23 and Me offers an interesting Ancestry Timeline with their ethnicity reporting which places all of my Ashkenazi Jewish, Oceanian, North African ancestry as dating back to a 4th to 7th or greater grandparent likely born between 1680 and 1770. My Scandinavian ancestry from a 4th to 6th grandparent born between 1710 and 1800. My French and German ancestry from a great grandparent to a 3x grandparent born between 1800 and 1860. My British and Irish ancestry from a parent, grandparent or great grandparent born between 1860 and 1920 and of course my father was born in 1904 in Eastleigh, Hampshire, England (and three of my grandparents were born in England in 1875, 1876 and 1886).
Thursday, March 16, 2017
Comparison of Family Finder Results with four siblings
Finally I was able to upload a second brother to Find My Past and open his results there including My Origins. It was somewhat of a surprise as I have tested him at 23 and Me, Ancestry and now this upload to FT DNA. The surprise was 94% British Isles. All of our ancestors are from England going back many many generations. I need to be back into at least the 1700s where I may have a German ancestor (not yet proven) and then back into the 1500s with known Huguenot ancestors. So 94% is not a surprise but most people living in the British Isles do not test at 94%.
Comparison of Siblings:
Sibling 1
94% British Isles
2% Scandinavia
4% Eastern Middle East
Sibling 2
84% British Isles
9% Southern Europe
8% Scandinavia
Sibling 3
60% British Isles
19% Scandinavia
15% Southern Europe
5% Western and Central Europe
Myself
51% British Isles
33% Scandinavia
12% Western and Central Europe
3% Asia Minor
1% North Africa
Looking at this with respect to where my five waves of ancestors who came to Canada actually lived in the British Isles is also interesting.
My first wave of ancestors (Thomas Routledge his wife Elizabeth (Routledge) Routledge) and their family which included their daughter Mary (Routledge) Gray) emigrated to Canada from Bewcastle, Cumberland in the summer of 1818. This family is found in the Bewcastle area back into the 1600s (and likely earlier). The mother of Thomas Routledge was from Lanercost which is slightly south of Bewcastle but still in Cumberland.
My second wave of ancestors (Robert Gray (Junior) came on his own actually) emigrated to Canada from Etton, East Riding of Yorkshire in 1832 as far as I can determine from his land records. This family is found in this area including, Etton, Cherry Burton, Kilnwick, Watton, Holme on the Wolds, Lund, Great Driffield, and Hutton Cranswick. This area all being around Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire slightly to the north and north west.
My third wave of ancestors (John Pincombe, his wife Elizabeth (Rew) Pincombe and their family which included their son William Robert Pincombe) emigrated to Canada from Molland, Devon in the fall of 1850 arriving in the Port of New York 7 Jan 1851 and in Canada in the spring of 1851. This Pincombe family is found in Bishops Nympton going back to the late 1500s, Rose Ash, Merton, North Molton, Landkey and South Molton. The Rew family is found in Selworthy, Somerset back into the 1500s as well as Wootton Courtney, Minehead, Dulverton, Cutcombe, Porlock, Dunster, and Luxborough. These villages all being in west Somerset running west from Minehead towards the Exmoors.
My fourth wave of ancestors (again a singleton, Ellen Rosina (Buller) Pincombe) emigrated to Canada in 1908 from Birmingham, England but her father's family was from both Bermondsey, Surrey and Staffordshire/Leicestershire. This includes Newington Surrey and Rugeley and Lichfield in Staffordshire and Ashby de la Zouch and Loughborough in Leicestershire. These villages/cities all being in an area roughly north and north east of Birmingham and south of London. Her mother's family is somewhat of a mystery although she was born in Birmingham according to her death certificate. However the Irish ancestry is a mystery and family lore does point that way for her ancestry.
My fifth wave of ancestors (Samuel George Blake, his wife Edith Bessie (Taylor) Blake and their son Ernest Edward George Blake) came to Canada in 1913. The Blake family itself is from the Andover area of Hampshire including Upper Clatford, Penton Mewsey, and Knights Enham. My grandfather's mother was from Turnworth, Dorset and her families were found in this area including Winterborne Clenstone, Winterborne Stickland, Winterborne Whitchurch, Spetisbury, and Milton Abbas. Edith Bessie Taylor aka Ada Bessie Cotterill Rawlings families are from Kimpton, Hampshire and before that Enford, Milston, West Harnahan, Fugglestone St Peter, Odstock, Melksham, Fovant and South Newton in Wiltshire. These villages all being in the rural area running west and slightly south from Andover, Hampshire.
The Scandinavian is interesting and does point out a strong difference in inheritance between all of us. I am going to do the Living DNA on my brother and I and perhaps it will be possible to upload the other two sets of data to this site in the future to give me a well rounded look at the entire family.
Ancestry DNA has produced an interesting chart in Science Tech
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3711040/How-British-Genetic-study-reveals-Yorkshire-Anglo-Saxon-UK-East-Midlands-Scandinavian.html
where they predict that the East Midlands has the most Scandinavian ancestry at 10.37%. The East Midlands according to their map includes: Derbyshire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire (not North and North east), Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire and Rutland.
I do have three of us tested at Ancestry:
Sibling 1
76% Western Europe
17% Ireland
5% Scandinavia
1% Iberian Peninsula
1% Great Britain
Sibling 2
27% Great Britain
26% Scandinavia
21% Western Europe
19% Ireland
5% Iberian Peninsula
1% Italy/Greece
Myself
64% Great Britain
14% Ireland
Western Europe 11%
6% Scandinavia
1% Iberian Peninsula
1% Eastern Europe
I also have results from 23 and Me
Sibling 1
47.3% British and Irish
20.9% French and German
1.0% Scandinavian
28.0% Northwestern European
0.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
Sibling 2
58.7% British and Irish
21.2% French and German
2.9% Scandinavian
16.7% Northwestern European
Sibling 3
51.0% British and Irish
15.7% French and German
3.4% Scandinavian
26.0% Northwestern European
1% Southern European
Myself
54.2% British and Irish
14.4% French and German
2.0% Scandinavian
0.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
27.9% Northwestern European
The results are all somewhat similar but do not really concentrate on the British Isles which I hope to acquire when I test my brother and myself at Living DNA shortly.
Comparison of Siblings:
Sibling 1
94% British Isles
2% Scandinavia
4% Eastern Middle East
Sibling 2
84% British Isles
9% Southern Europe
8% Scandinavia
Sibling 3
60% British Isles
19% Scandinavia
15% Southern Europe
5% Western and Central Europe
Myself
51% British Isles
33% Scandinavia
12% Western and Central Europe
3% Asia Minor
1% North Africa
Looking at this with respect to where my five waves of ancestors who came to Canada actually lived in the British Isles is also interesting.
My first wave of ancestors (Thomas Routledge his wife Elizabeth (Routledge) Routledge) and their family which included their daughter Mary (Routledge) Gray) emigrated to Canada from Bewcastle, Cumberland in the summer of 1818. This family is found in the Bewcastle area back into the 1600s (and likely earlier). The mother of Thomas Routledge was from Lanercost which is slightly south of Bewcastle but still in Cumberland.
My second wave of ancestors (Robert Gray (Junior) came on his own actually) emigrated to Canada from Etton, East Riding of Yorkshire in 1832 as far as I can determine from his land records. This family is found in this area including, Etton, Cherry Burton, Kilnwick, Watton, Holme on the Wolds, Lund, Great Driffield, and Hutton Cranswick. This area all being around Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire slightly to the north and north west.
My third wave of ancestors (John Pincombe, his wife Elizabeth (Rew) Pincombe and their family which included their son William Robert Pincombe) emigrated to Canada from Molland, Devon in the fall of 1850 arriving in the Port of New York 7 Jan 1851 and in Canada in the spring of 1851. This Pincombe family is found in Bishops Nympton going back to the late 1500s, Rose Ash, Merton, North Molton, Landkey and South Molton. The Rew family is found in Selworthy, Somerset back into the 1500s as well as Wootton Courtney, Minehead, Dulverton, Cutcombe, Porlock, Dunster, and Luxborough. These villages all being in west Somerset running west from Minehead towards the Exmoors.
My fourth wave of ancestors (again a singleton, Ellen Rosina (Buller) Pincombe) emigrated to Canada in 1908 from Birmingham, England but her father's family was from both Bermondsey, Surrey and Staffordshire/Leicestershire. This includes Newington Surrey and Rugeley and Lichfield in Staffordshire and Ashby de la Zouch and Loughborough in Leicestershire. These villages/cities all being in an area roughly north and north east of Birmingham and south of London. Her mother's family is somewhat of a mystery although she was born in Birmingham according to her death certificate. However the Irish ancestry is a mystery and family lore does point that way for her ancestry.
My fifth wave of ancestors (Samuel George Blake, his wife Edith Bessie (Taylor) Blake and their son Ernest Edward George Blake) came to Canada in 1913. The Blake family itself is from the Andover area of Hampshire including Upper Clatford, Penton Mewsey, and Knights Enham. My grandfather's mother was from Turnworth, Dorset and her families were found in this area including Winterborne Clenstone, Winterborne Stickland, Winterborne Whitchurch, Spetisbury, and Milton Abbas. Edith Bessie Taylor aka Ada Bessie Cotterill Rawlings families are from Kimpton, Hampshire and before that Enford, Milston, West Harnahan, Fugglestone St Peter, Odstock, Melksham, Fovant and South Newton in Wiltshire. These villages all being in the rural area running west and slightly south from Andover, Hampshire.
The Scandinavian is interesting and does point out a strong difference in inheritance between all of us. I am going to do the Living DNA on my brother and I and perhaps it will be possible to upload the other two sets of data to this site in the future to give me a well rounded look at the entire family.
Ancestry DNA has produced an interesting chart in Science Tech
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3711040/How-British-Genetic-study-reveals-Yorkshire-Anglo-Saxon-UK-East-Midlands-Scandinavian.html
where they predict that the East Midlands has the most Scandinavian ancestry at 10.37%. The East Midlands according to their map includes: Derbyshire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire (not North and North east), Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire and Rutland.
I do have three of us tested at Ancestry:
Sibling 1
76% Western Europe
17% Ireland
5% Scandinavia
1% Iberian Peninsula
1% Great Britain
Sibling 2
27% Great Britain
26% Scandinavia
21% Western Europe
19% Ireland
5% Iberian Peninsula
1% Italy/Greece
Myself
64% Great Britain
14% Ireland
Western Europe 11%
6% Scandinavia
1% Iberian Peninsula
1% Eastern Europe
I also have results from 23 and Me
Sibling 1
47.3% British and Irish
20.9% French and German
1.0% Scandinavian
28.0% Northwestern European
0.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
Sibling 2
58.7% British and Irish
21.2% French and German
2.9% Scandinavian
16.7% Northwestern European
Sibling 3
51.0% British and Irish
15.7% French and German
3.4% Scandinavian
26.0% Northwestern European
1% Southern European
Myself
54.2% British and Irish
14.4% French and German
2.0% Scandinavian
0.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
27.9% Northwestern European
The results are all somewhat similar but do not really concentrate on the British Isles which I hope to acquire when I test my brother and myself at Living DNA shortly.
Saturday, September 26, 2015
More results from 23 and Me Ethnicity
A second brother of mine has tested and I have his ethnicity results to go along with the ethnicity results of another brother and myself reported on earlier.
Myself Brother 1 Brother 2 % Region
99.9% 99.8% 100% European
98.5% 97.2% 99.6% Northern European
54.2% 47.3% 58.7% British and Irish
14.4% 20.9% 21.2% French and German
2.0% 1.0% 2.9% Scandinavian
27.9% 28.0% 16.7% Broadly Northern European
0.3% 0.9% Southern European
less than 0.1% Italian
0.3% 0.8% Broadly Southern European
0.2% 0.2% Ashkenazi
0.8% 1.5% 0.4% Broadly European
0.1% 0.1% Oceanian
less than 0.1% less than 0.1% North African and Middle East
Less than 0.1% Sub saharan Africa
0.1% 0.1% less than 0.1% Unassigned
This brother is 99.6% Northern European, 100% European. He doesn't show any of the miniscule amounts that myself and brother 1 show. Interesting but the variety of English genes that make up my family lines is considerably different perhaps from others. I have five waves of immigration from England over a period of slightly less than 100 years from 5 distinct areas.
1818 - Bewcastle, Cumberland
1832 - Etton, East Riding of Yorkshire
1850 - Bishops Nympton, Devon and Selworthy Somerset
1908 - Birmingham, England and Bermondsey, Surrey
- Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire and Rugeley, Staffordshire
1913 - Upper Clatford, Hampshire and Turnworth, Dorset
- Enford, Wiltshire and Kimpton, Hampshire
Although this may not appear to be remarkably different considering the size of England most of my ancestors came from small villages dating back in their family lines hundreds of years. Only Birmingham and Bermondsey, Surrey are large metropolitan areas.
Already I can tell with this third mentioned tester at 23 and Me and the fifth one of my siblings to test their autosomal (and other) DNA, that the percentages that we each received from our four grandparents was exceedingly different. Our matches tend to be extreme in terms of how much with most of us being quite different from each other. Phasing of my parent's DNA is the intent of doing all this testing and we are about to begin now working on that. We had started using the FT DNA data but now with several sets from 23 and Me we will proceed.
The next batch of testing is to do at least one sibling at AncestryDNA (I am already there) and perhaps two if I can find a second one willing to do that.
My understanding is that the Ethnic Percentages from 23 and Me tend to be the best picture of our ethnicity. Knowing each one of my siblings I had already formed an opinion on which grandparent that they most resembled and eventually I may take a crack at our grandparent's phased DNA as well. That will require some assistance from cousins and we do not have any first cousins and few second cousins and half-second cousins on both sides of our families. There are a number of third cousins and these will be the ones that I will have to rely on to work on the grandparents. We will see how far I progress with that!
But I do wonder what happened to the minute amounts of southern Europe including Italian, Sardinian, the Middle East and North African found in the rest of us? This latest result is 99.6% Northern European with the 0.4% being broadly European. The lack of this in the one set of results does give me the notion that this one brother received a larger portion of DNA from our maternal grandfather's mother than is perhaps the usual split. Waiting for the matches now to see if this bears out in matches. I think if I could have tested my father I would have found that he too was predominantly Northern European and it is just the Devon/Somerset ancestors that are giving us the southern European/Middle East/North African results.
Myself Brother 1 Brother 2 % Region
99.9% 99.8% 100% European
98.5% 97.2% 99.6% Northern European
54.2% 47.3% 58.7% British and Irish
14.4% 20.9% 21.2% French and German
2.0% 1.0% 2.9% Scandinavian
27.9% 28.0% 16.7% Broadly Northern European
0.3% 0.9% Southern European
less than 0.1% Italian
0.3% 0.8% Broadly Southern European
0.2% 0.2% Ashkenazi
0.8% 1.5% 0.4% Broadly European
0.1% 0.1% Oceanian
less than 0.1% less than 0.1% North African and Middle East
Less than 0.1% Sub saharan Africa
0.1% 0.1% less than 0.1% Unassigned
This brother is 99.6% Northern European, 100% European. He doesn't show any of the miniscule amounts that myself and brother 1 show. Interesting but the variety of English genes that make up my family lines is considerably different perhaps from others. I have five waves of immigration from England over a period of slightly less than 100 years from 5 distinct areas.
1818 - Bewcastle, Cumberland
1832 - Etton, East Riding of Yorkshire
1850 - Bishops Nympton, Devon and Selworthy Somerset
1908 - Birmingham, England and Bermondsey, Surrey
- Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire and Rugeley, Staffordshire
1913 - Upper Clatford, Hampshire and Turnworth, Dorset
- Enford, Wiltshire and Kimpton, Hampshire
Although this may not appear to be remarkably different considering the size of England most of my ancestors came from small villages dating back in their family lines hundreds of years. Only Birmingham and Bermondsey, Surrey are large metropolitan areas.
Already I can tell with this third mentioned tester at 23 and Me and the fifth one of my siblings to test their autosomal (and other) DNA, that the percentages that we each received from our four grandparents was exceedingly different. Our matches tend to be extreme in terms of how much with most of us being quite different from each other. Phasing of my parent's DNA is the intent of doing all this testing and we are about to begin now working on that. We had started using the FT DNA data but now with several sets from 23 and Me we will proceed.
The next batch of testing is to do at least one sibling at AncestryDNA (I am already there) and perhaps two if I can find a second one willing to do that.
My understanding is that the Ethnic Percentages from 23 and Me tend to be the best picture of our ethnicity. Knowing each one of my siblings I had already formed an opinion on which grandparent that they most resembled and eventually I may take a crack at our grandparent's phased DNA as well. That will require some assistance from cousins and we do not have any first cousins and few second cousins and half-second cousins on both sides of our families. There are a number of third cousins and these will be the ones that I will have to rely on to work on the grandparents. We will see how far I progress with that!
But I do wonder what happened to the minute amounts of southern Europe including Italian, Sardinian, the Middle East and North African found in the rest of us? This latest result is 99.6% Northern European with the 0.4% being broadly European. The lack of this in the one set of results does give me the notion that this one brother received a larger portion of DNA from our maternal grandfather's mother than is perhaps the usual split. Waiting for the matches now to see if this bears out in matches. I think if I could have tested my father I would have found that he too was predominantly Northern European and it is just the Devon/Somerset ancestors that are giving us the southern European/Middle East/North African results.
Monday, July 20, 2015
Upcoming Presentation
Although it has been my stated intent not to do any more lectures I will be doing a Google hangout for The Surname Society next Saturday. The title will be DNA and Surname Studies. I am gradually stepping down from my involvement in this society as well. The next issue of the newsletter will be my last. I would like to do some database work for both the guild of one studies and the surname society. But any involvement in either executive is ending.
In reality it has been the entry of DNA into genealogy that has drawn me into genealogy although the initial push came from my fourth cousin George Dekay. He wanted a
Pincombe profile for the Delaware and Westminster history books published almost ten years ago now. I was reticent to take the project on. I did do so and my forays into genealogy began.
My husband and I first tested our DNA in 2006 in order to be part of The National Geographic Project. We were interested in our deep ancestry and my husband was keen to discover his Kipp line which has a brick wall at his 2nd great grandfather Isaac Kipp who was born in 1764 and came to Canada in 1800 as a settler with his wife Hannah Mead and four of their five sons. He has been studying his families for nearly 40 years.
I really expected to find that my mitochondrial line would be a fairly usual English one but surprises were in store for me. At the NG project I tested as H haplogroup with three differences from the Cambridge Reference Standard. The option to take my results into FT DNA was offered and I did do that only to discover that I had very few matches - 5 actually. One of them had done further testing and was H11. Interest kindled and so I did further testing and I have now done everything available. I have tested at Ancestry and 23 and me as well.
Very busy the rest of the day. Will share the presentation.
In reality it has been the entry of DNA into genealogy that has drawn me into genealogy although the initial push came from my fourth cousin George Dekay. He wanted a
Pincombe profile for the Delaware and Westminster history books published almost ten years ago now. I was reticent to take the project on. I did do so and my forays into genealogy began.
My husband and I first tested our DNA in 2006 in order to be part of The National Geographic Project. We were interested in our deep ancestry and my husband was keen to discover his Kipp line which has a brick wall at his 2nd great grandfather Isaac Kipp who was born in 1764 and came to Canada in 1800 as a settler with his wife Hannah Mead and four of their five sons. He has been studying his families for nearly 40 years.
I really expected to find that my mitochondrial line would be a fairly usual English one but surprises were in store for me. At the NG project I tested as H haplogroup with three differences from the Cambridge Reference Standard. The option to take my results into FT DNA was offered and I did do that only to discover that I had very few matches - 5 actually. One of them had done further testing and was H11. Interest kindled and so I did further testing and I have now done everything available. I have tested at Ancestry and 23 and me as well.
Very busy the rest of the day. Will share the presentation.
Sunday, May 31, 2015
Ethnicity Estimate - Tests at FT DNA, Ancestry and 23 and Me compared
I now have three Ethnicity Estimates looking at my autosomal DNA.
FT DNA
European 96%
British Isles 51%
Scandinavia 33%
Western and Central Europe 12%
Asia Minor 3%
North Africa 1%
Ancestry
Europe 99%
Great Britain 64%
Ireland 14%
Europe West 11%
Scandinavia 6%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Europe East less than 1% Italy/Greece less than 1% Finland/Northwest Russia, less than 1% Melanesia
23 and Me
European 99.9%
British and Irish 54.2%
French and German 14.4%
Scandinavian 2.0%
Northern European 27.9%
Southern European 0.3%
European 0.8%
Ashkenazi 0.2%
Oceania 0.1%
North Africa 0.1%
Undetermined 0.1%
A bird's eye view of my results says that I have 51%-78% British Isles Ancestry, I have 2%-33% Scandinavian Ancestry, I have 11%-42.5% Northern European Ancestry with the rest all being less than 1%.
The largest ancestry is my British Isles Ancestry and 14 of my great great grandparents were born, lived and were buried in England (two exceptions buried in Canada although both born in England) and their ancestors for the most part going back in time except for two brickwalled lines where I do not know their ancestry. Comments have been made that 23 and Me comes the closest to accuracy with their estimation. A French and German component of 14.4% is huge although compares to 11% Europe West at Ancestry and 12% Western and Central Europe at FT DNA. I think that my results do rather merge together although Ancestry has given me a very high percentage of British Isles at 78%.
Time frame for these estimations would be rather interesting to look at but I do not think it will necessarily break down those brick walls that I have with firstly my maternal grandmother's mother although knowing the mtDNA may one day help with that particular line and secondly my 3x great grandfather Christopher Buller's parents. They are definitely a mystery and quite a formidable brickwall at least they appear to be given the amount of research I have put into that line at London Metropolitan Archives. However, I have a new piece of information that may be helpful the next time we are there.
I can not resist thinking of these brickwalls when I look at these estimates! I do not yet have my matches at 23 and Me. They are to come in the next week or so. But I have already uploaded my Ancestry and my FT DNA Family Finder results to Gedmatch so do not expect to find anything but the database at 23 and Me is huge. It is just that I know all of my American cousins on the Buller line but I do not know if any of them has ever tested.
All in all I am probably finished testing myself unless I do do BritainsDNA. That would be a late fall project as I save up my loonies. Would I really learn anything more? Well, I have done my brother but we are not close matches at FT DNA in terms of shared cMs - we are at the far limit for full siblings which is a good thing because we do not have our parent's DNA results and having a variety of results from siblings can help us to look at what the parents might have been. So doing myself at BritainsDNA might paint a rather interesting picture of our ancestry.
.
FT DNA
European 96%
British Isles 51%
Scandinavia 33%
Western and Central Europe 12%
Asia Minor 3%
North Africa 1%
Ancestry
Europe 99%
Great Britain 64%
Ireland 14%
Europe West 11%
Scandinavia 6%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Europe East less than 1% Italy/Greece less than 1% Finland/Northwest Russia, less than 1% Melanesia
23 and Me
European 99.9%
British and Irish 54.2%
French and German 14.4%
Scandinavian 2.0%
Northern European 27.9%
Southern European 0.3%
European 0.8%
Ashkenazi 0.2%
Oceania 0.1%
North Africa 0.1%
Undetermined 0.1%
A bird's eye view of my results says that I have 51%-78% British Isles Ancestry, I have 2%-33% Scandinavian Ancestry, I have 11%-42.5% Northern European Ancestry with the rest all being less than 1%.
The largest ancestry is my British Isles Ancestry and 14 of my great great grandparents were born, lived and were buried in England (two exceptions buried in Canada although both born in England) and their ancestors for the most part going back in time except for two brickwalled lines where I do not know their ancestry. Comments have been made that 23 and Me comes the closest to accuracy with their estimation. A French and German component of 14.4% is huge although compares to 11% Europe West at Ancestry and 12% Western and Central Europe at FT DNA. I think that my results do rather merge together although Ancestry has given me a very high percentage of British Isles at 78%.
Time frame for these estimations would be rather interesting to look at but I do not think it will necessarily break down those brick walls that I have with firstly my maternal grandmother's mother although knowing the mtDNA may one day help with that particular line and secondly my 3x great grandfather Christopher Buller's parents. They are definitely a mystery and quite a formidable brickwall at least they appear to be given the amount of research I have put into that line at London Metropolitan Archives. However, I have a new piece of information that may be helpful the next time we are there.
I can not resist thinking of these brickwalls when I look at these estimates! I do not yet have my matches at 23 and Me. They are to come in the next week or so. But I have already uploaded my Ancestry and my FT DNA Family Finder results to Gedmatch so do not expect to find anything but the database at 23 and Me is huge. It is just that I know all of my American cousins on the Buller line but I do not know if any of them has ever tested.
All in all I am probably finished testing myself unless I do do BritainsDNA. That would be a late fall project as I save up my loonies. Would I really learn anything more? Well, I have done my brother but we are not close matches at FT DNA in terms of shared cMs - we are at the far limit for full siblings which is a good thing because we do not have our parent's DNA results and having a variety of results from siblings can help us to look at what the parents might have been. So doing myself at BritainsDNA might paint a rather interesting picture of our ancestry.
.
Monday, May 11, 2015
52 Ancestor Challenge and DNA
Up to the 19th of 52 Ancestor Challenge and the last couple permitted me to go in and look at my research (and that of cousins since I can not take credit for all of it) and make new decisions on work done six or seven years ago. Our next trip to London and the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) will involve some interesting research on the Beard and Hemsley families and another look at the Buller family. It was more of a drop in and check for Christopher Buller's baptism (not found) that first visit and then onto the Society of Genealogists that busy morning that we decided to travel on the City Bus in London as that was the easiest way to get to LMA and then walk to the Society of Genealogists.
The 20th Ancestor of the 52 Ancestor Challenge is one that I have done all the research on. But I have meant to get back to her and this is an excellent opportunity.
Coming up to half way through I think this is an excellent idea and next year I shall do the 3x greatgrandparents of my children and our son in law giving me again 64 individuals to work on. I know all 32 3x great grandparents for our son in law - about 98% early French Canadian lines. For our daughters I am looking at all sixteen known for my husband's side and I will do the remainder in my lines (just four of the 16 - I will leave out the likely ancestors of my paternal grandmother because they are going to be well discussed this year). I will also omit my paternal grandfather lines except for Ann Farmer's ancestors. I am hoping that I will, by the end of next year, have more information on the Henry Christopher Buller line and the last two will be the parents of Ellen Taylor because by the end of next year when I work on her lines we will have been to Birmingham and London for another couple of good research days. I will report on what I find (or do not find).
I also tested at 23 and Me (at least my sample has now reached the testing facility) and possibly I will learn more about my lines as some of my families are known to have gone to the United States since the early 1900s. They have a huge database.
A recent match was most revealing at Ancestry. A 4th to 6th cousin match turned into a 2nd to 4th cousin match at FT DNA when she brought her results across. We have a sizeable match on one chromosome where I do not match my siblings (they do not come up as a match with her at all although they do have small matches with her). I am suspicious, because of another known cousin match, that I have inherited more of the Ellen Taylor line. My siblings have twice the match that I have with a Pincombe 4th cousin. I do match a known 3rd cousin on my Buller side (descendant of a sister to my greatgrandfather Buller)) but it is somewhat weak as well and it is at Ancestry where only I have tested and she has not elected to bring it across into FT DNA. That leaves the Taylor line for me to have inherited a large chunk via my mother from her mother. DNA can be very very interesting on occasion. I am suspicious that Ellen Taylor is descended from an Irish/Scot family because my mtDNA is mostly found in the Argyllshire/Ayrshire area of Scotland (Blood of the Isles Database and Sorenson). My grandmother did mention once that some of her mother's family had emigrated to the United States and it is a vague memory her saying that. The match at Ancestry can trace her one parent's side back to specific areas in Eastern Europe so not a match there. But the other parent's side is a mystery on the paternal line (the maternal line on that side is known) and Ireland is suspected as the home for this ancestor (noted on the US census). The surname Halloran which is much nicer to look for than Taylor. Although there are actually not all that many Taylor families in Ireland compared to England.
The 20th Ancestor of the 52 Ancestor Challenge is one that I have done all the research on. But I have meant to get back to her and this is an excellent opportunity.
Coming up to half way through I think this is an excellent idea and next year I shall do the 3x greatgrandparents of my children and our son in law giving me again 64 individuals to work on. I know all 32 3x great grandparents for our son in law - about 98% early French Canadian lines. For our daughters I am looking at all sixteen known for my husband's side and I will do the remainder in my lines (just four of the 16 - I will leave out the likely ancestors of my paternal grandmother because they are going to be well discussed this year). I will also omit my paternal grandfather lines except for Ann Farmer's ancestors. I am hoping that I will, by the end of next year, have more information on the Henry Christopher Buller line and the last two will be the parents of Ellen Taylor because by the end of next year when I work on her lines we will have been to Birmingham and London for another couple of good research days. I will report on what I find (or do not find).
I also tested at 23 and Me (at least my sample has now reached the testing facility) and possibly I will learn more about my lines as some of my families are known to have gone to the United States since the early 1900s. They have a huge database.
A recent match was most revealing at Ancestry. A 4th to 6th cousin match turned into a 2nd to 4th cousin match at FT DNA when she brought her results across. We have a sizeable match on one chromosome where I do not match my siblings (they do not come up as a match with her at all although they do have small matches with her). I am suspicious, because of another known cousin match, that I have inherited more of the Ellen Taylor line. My siblings have twice the match that I have with a Pincombe 4th cousin. I do match a known 3rd cousin on my Buller side (descendant of a sister to my greatgrandfather Buller)) but it is somewhat weak as well and it is at Ancestry where only I have tested and she has not elected to bring it across into FT DNA. That leaves the Taylor line for me to have inherited a large chunk via my mother from her mother. DNA can be very very interesting on occasion. I am suspicious that Ellen Taylor is descended from an Irish/Scot family because my mtDNA is mostly found in the Argyllshire/Ayrshire area of Scotland (Blood of the Isles Database and Sorenson). My grandmother did mention once that some of her mother's family had emigrated to the United States and it is a vague memory her saying that. The match at Ancestry can trace her one parent's side back to specific areas in Eastern Europe so not a match there. But the other parent's side is a mystery on the paternal line (the maternal line on that side is known) and Ireland is suspected as the home for this ancestor (noted on the US census). The surname Halloran which is much nicer to look for than Taylor. Although there are actually not all that many Taylor families in Ireland compared to England.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)