Busy week

 Yesterday was another busy personal day as will today be and not much work accomplished. Not surprising but I do sense that more work time is coming which will be nice for sure. Harder to find that time in the summer months but the lovely walks on the beach are very much worth losing the work time. 

Warm again today but mostly cloudy and must go out and water the tomatoes soon before it gets too hot. Grass all cut last weekend and probably does not  need cutting for another week as we like it to grow long for the bunny to graze on. Why not as he seems to enjoy it. 

God's world still hasn't moved to that plain of peace as we wait patiently for an end to war and lots of discussion in the United Nations. It is really the only way; it worked well during the Cold War for nearly 45 years. But Russia seems unable to accept their boundaries created by their bankruptcy trying to take over Afghanistan in the 1990s and continue in their aggressive taunts threatening everyone with nuclear war. Is it because no one there has an ability to think through what comes out of their mouth? No ideas on that but it needs to end for the good of humanity. We are tired of listening to their threats but we are not an aggressive people and prefer the route of peace. Russia claims all sorts of ridiculous assumptions about NATO and they tried to convince the United States to destroy NATO I think but everything appears to be on that same page once again supporting the efforts of NATO to keep the Russians corralled in their 1990s borders.  Why do the Russian people listen to the ridiculous statements made by their government? One wonders that. 

Pincombe Newsletter mostly written and just have to pull the Bishops Nympton data which I am currently publishing in the newsletter. My Pincombe line was at Bishops Nympton from the late 1500s and continued well into the 1900s. Before that they were at East Buckland and  Filleigh and before that at North Molton and East Buckland. My line, Richard Pincombe, was the fourth son of William Pincombe and Emotte Snow whose family included seven sons and two daughters. My own line used the spelling of Pincomb in England from the 1500s to the mid 1800s and initially here but gradually the surname came to be spelled Pincombe. 

Tariff has raised its ugly head once again as discussions on CUSMA come together. We must continue making ourselves tariff proof as we move ahead in Canada with nearly 90,000 jobs created in May this year. The only way does appear to be totally independent but that is a shame as our trade with so many American States was equally balanced and we are good friends. Personally I do not want cheap cheese made with freeze dried milk mind you the cheeses made in Wisconsin and their milk are absolutely lovely. Wanting to take over our market just doesn't work well but wanting to trade items that we do not have is a great idea and has worked well since we first got into trade deals in the mid 1960s. Primarily with the American car companies at first and gradually increasing in the items that we trade back and forth. We tend to be resource rich and the amount of oil which is purchased by the United States at a discount (we sell the rest to the world at full price) has put the trade slightly out of balance but we could just decrease what we send to them at a discount and sell around the world at full price if that helps the discussions of equal trade. No ideas on that really as I am not involved in that at all nor do I wish to be at nearly 81 years of age. 

The discussion yesterday by the Prime Minister on our AI future was fantastic. Good ideas and the implementation sounds very straightforward. Starting with medicine a good idea as the AI can collect all the information on a patient quickly and have it available especially in the Emergency Room where the lines can be very long. AI can be a powerful tool with the right hands being the recipients of all that information. So much of our medical information is online making that a reasonable proposition as we all have our Health Card numbers attached to all of our information. I do like socialized medicine. In the past it was sort of socialized as the local doctor always had the ear of the local council and funding when needed. It is really just a step up from that original careful dolling out of medical care as needed in a parish. I think it is one of the really great values and there are many more that have come to us because of our religion. The Parish system was the system setup by the Christian Church and if one goes back in time it existed for the Celtic Church allowing quickly when Jesus came amongst us for the Celtic Church to move to the Christian Celtic Church. English records are such that one can follow the story of any recorded village/town/city in England through their records painstakingly recorded through the centuries. 

But for me our Christian Religion is based on the laws which God gave to us initially with the Ten Commandments to Moses and later with the two commandments that Jesus brought to us simplifying how we should live. It is concise and we could all be living that life of "loving our neighbour as ourself" where loving is respecting and then wars would end and the uplifted plain of peace would be ours to have. We still have to be ready as we do not know what is out there in the universe - God said "Be vigilant: as we read Old Testament and New Testament passages. 

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." (1 Peter 5:8, NKJV)
 

Time to do the Solitaire puzzles.  

 

 

 

 

A few challenges

I have finally settled into a methodology and I will extract the census for Pincomb/Pincombe/Pencomb/Pencombe/Pyncomb/Pyncombe/Pinkham and that is in process. I was resistant initially to going for that right away but it is probably a good method. It is the way that I worked on the Siderfin family but I know more about Pincombe but when I really contemplate it I know more about my Pincombe line coming down from John Pincombe and Mary Charly. I moved that entire family line from my family legacy file to the One-Name Pencombe family that I created a few months ago. I know that is has been verified from Robert (second youngest son of this couple) down to my stopping point which is my mother. She will appear in the book and the cut-off will be primarily anyone on the 1911 census although she was born a little later than that. If I know a birth up to 1920 then I will enter it otherwise not. I will maintain the 100 year rule that we use here in Canada. 

So my task today is census and I have already worked on the first name and will continue doing that. It is going smoothly as the census generally does. I think I found it intriguing to work through mysteries and got distracted by that but this is more efficient. 

Looks like rain and next week I hope to finish the garden bed at the front putting in fresh soil as I can see all the plants up now pretty much except for the hosta but if it is a warm rain today that will be up as well. I did not remove the old vegetation it will sit under the fresh earth and rot to feed the plant. That appears to be the principle of regenerative gardening and I like it actually. I do have to weed although those beds are not too weedy in actual fact. 

Other than that I must make some more chocolate muffins as my date squares have all been eaten and enjoyed greatly. I do like date squares. I should make a tray of them as I think they probably freeze since I can not eat an entire tray that quickly. Will think about doing that. It is sort of  fun to start my day with tea and a sweet cake one might say especially chocolate. I must eat all my chocolate by noon or it will wake me up early - all that caffeine. 

Nearly time to lift weights so back to the census. Already the fourth of May, the month will pass quickly. 

Teatime and Latin done long ago now.

Continuing on the Charley family

Finally up to the Devon Charley family and that is just four pages of this book. Not much written up on this family; perhaps they were not forthcoming when they were approached by the author. There is a mystery there but perhaps not a huge mystery. I suspect that over time the alcohol problem that appears to have existed in the Devon Charley family has disappeared but no one wants to remember that for sure. But it would make sense that they moved on from the Combe Martin area in Devon (at least the younger children) to find better positions in life further away. The Devon Charley family appear to be there from the late 1600s on although the rumour is that they were Irish at least for a time but did they actually just take a note from the Chorley family that went to Belfast and change their name to Charley to match? A good question and not likely to be answered by me either in this generation. I really do not find a lot of documentation on this family. 

 I had never really looked up the wills for this family and there are 59 for the Chorley family at the National Archives.

 
Citable Reference    Description    Date
PROB 11/791/214    Will of Richard Chorley, Gentleman of Everingham , Yorkshire.    22 November 1751
PROB 11/971/232    Will of Ellen Chorley, Spinster of Frenchay , Gloucestershire.    04 October 1771
PROB 11/1248/259    Will of Elizabeth Chorley, Widow of Titchfield Street , Middlesex.    19 August 1794
PROB 11/1515/497    Will of Elizabeth Chorley, Spinster of Tiverton , Devon.    17 October 1810
PROB 11/1415/181    Will of Moses Chorley, Yeoman of Sampford Arundell , Somerset.    10 October 1804
PROB 11/1889/108    Will of Mary Chorley, Spinster of Prescot , Lancashire.    15 January 1838
PROB 11/1994/255    Will of William Chorley, Gentleman of Seend , Wiltshire.    13 March 1844
PROB 11/2252/422    Will of William Chorley, Gentleman of Exton , Somerset.    23 June 1857
PROB 11/653/210    Will of Henry Chorley, Glass Seller of London.    17 August 1732
PROB 11/877/468    Will of Elizabeth Chorley of Tottenham High Cross , Middlesex.    05 July 1762
PROB 11/1244/230    Will of Thomas Chorley, Carpenter of Saint Botolph without Aldgate Without the Walls London City , Middlesex.    28 April 1794
PROB 11/1286/215    Will of Francis Chorley, Gentleman of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    09 March 1797
PROB 11/1475/87    Will of Charles Chorley, Merchants Agent and Ticket Porter of Beer Lane , City of London.    07 March 1808
PROB 11/1594/69    Will of John Chorley, Gentleman of Tottenham, Middlesex.    05 July 1817
PROB 11/1593/363    Will of William Chorley, Sadler of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    23 June 1817
PROB 11/1565/191    Will of John Chorley, Gentleman of Prescot , Lancashire.    10 February 1815
PROB 11/1572/404    Will of George Chorley, Cordwainer of Tiverton , Devon.    07 September 1815
PROB 11/1614/96    Will of Jonas Chorley, Yeoman of Minehead , Somerset.    06 March 1819
PROB 11/2251/257    Will of Phoebe Chorley, Spinster of Mount Vernon near Liverpool , Lancashire.    21 May 1857
PROB 11/1759/221    Will of Ann Chorley, Spinster of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    14 August 1829
PROB 11/1812/359    Will of Sarah Chorley, Wife of Wellington , Somerset.    08 March 1833
PROB 11/2150/377    Will of William Chorley, Grocer of Whitechapel , Middlesex.    24 April 1852
PROB 11/612/323    Will of Sarah Chorley, Spinster of Grinstead, Essex.    13 December 1726
PROB 11/2066/74    Will of Ann Chorley of No 5 Queen Street Edgeware Road , Middlesex.    28 December 1847
PROB 11/2104/93    Will of Frances Chorley, Spinster of Prescot , Lancashire.    17 December 1849
PROB 11/718/96    Will of James Chorley, Salter of Southwark , Surrey.    10 May 1742
PROB 11/853/258    Will of John Chorley, Linen Draper of Gracechurch Street , City of London.    16 February 1760
PROB 11/1112/279    Will of Thomas Chorley, Innholder of West Smithfield , City of London.    23 January 1784
PROB 11/1112/278    Will of Ann Chorley, Widow of Smithfield , City of London.    23 January 1784
PROB 11/274/28    Will of John Chorley, Yeoman of Preston in Amounderness, Lancashire.    02 March 1658
PROB 11/1242/206    Will of Alexander Chorley, Commissioner for Victualling His Majesty's Navy of Saint Marylebone , Middlesex.    18 March 1794
PROB 11/1839/304    Will of Thomas Chorley, Surgeon of Leeds , Yorkshire.    03 December 1834
PROB 11/1858/421    Will of Toft Chorley, Yeoman of Leek , Staffordshire.    08 March 1836
PROB 11/1977/280    Will of James Chorley, late Surveyor of taxes, now Gentleman of No 7 Oddys Row Islington Green , Middlesex.    05 April 1843
PROB 11/2072/393    Will of George Chorley, Floor, Cloth Manufacturer of Westminster Bridge Road , Surrey.    15 April 1848
PROB 11/1578/475    Will of Sarah Chorley, Widow of Beer Lane , City of London.    26 March 1816
PROB 11/1537/440    Will of John Chorley, Yeoman of Culmstock , Devon.    15 October 1812
PROB 11/1509/182    Will of Betty Chorley, Widow of Liverpool , Lancashire.    10 March 1810
PROB 11/1593/431    Will of James Chorley of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    27 June 1817
PROB 11/1607/212    Will of William Chorley of Doctors Common London.    15 August 1818
PROB 11/1887/362    Will of Joshua Chorley of Leek, Staffordshire.    11 December 1837
PROB 11/1634/169    Will of Thomas Chorley, Clothier of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    11 September 1820
PROB 11/1200/205    Will of Phillipia otherwise Philipa Chorley, Widow of Saint Botolph Aldgate , London.    24 January 1791
PROB 11/1344/196    Will of Thomas Chorley, Clothier of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    03 July 1800
PROB 11/1656/340    Will of Frances Chorley, Spinster of Taunton Saint Mary Magdalen , Somerset.    15 May 1822
PROB 11/1593/432    Will of William Stevens Chorley, Sadler of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    27 June 1817
PROB 11/1900/254    Will of Aaron Chorley, Millwright of Bosham , Sussex.    06 September 1838
PROB 11/1881/195    Will of William Chorley, late Spirit Merchant now Gentleman of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    24 July 1837
PROB 11/909/2    Will of James Chorley, Grocer of Sutton Isle of Ely , Cambridgeshire.    01 May 1765
PROB 11/2044/214    Will of Jane Chorley, Unmarried woman of Greenwich , Kent.    05 November 1846
PROB 11/2141/376    Will of Jane Chorley, Widow of Chester Square Pimlico , Middlesex.    14 November 1851
PROB 11/2170/250    Will of Susanna Hough Chorley, Spinster of Liverpool , Lancashire.    19 April 1853
PROB 11/118/104    Will of John Chorley, Husbandman of Stawley, Somerset.    13 July 1611
PROB 11/574/181    Will of Josiah Chorley, Clerk of Norwich, Norfolk.    19 May 1720
PROB 11/182/561    Will of Edward Chorley, Barber, Chirurgeon of London.    28 April 1640
PROB 11/814/418    Will of Francis Chorley, Gentleman of Wiveliscombe , Somerset.    16 April 1755
PROB 11/885/7    Will of John Chorley otherwise Cherley, Butcher's Mate now belonging to His Majesty's Ship Invincible lying at Portsmouth.    01 March 1763
PROB 11/3/547    Will of Johes Chorley or Thorley of Uxbridge, Middlesex.    March 1446
PROB 11/1668/433    Will of William Charley otherwise Chorley, Private in 59th Regiment of Chatham , Kent.    30 April 1823

There are a few old wills (bolded) that I will have a look at. 

Now the Charley family on the National Archives:

PROB 11/435/334    Will of Samuell Charley, Merchant Tailor of London    11 December 1696   
PROB 11/1473/268    Will of Ann Charley, Spinster of Coventry , Warwickshire    20 February 1808   
PROB 11/153/180    Will of Edward Charley, Singleman of Stapleton, Shropshire    11 February 1628   
PROB 11/1120/111    Will of Isaac Charley, Gentleman of Newbury , Berkshire    02 August 1784   
PROB 11/401/288    Will of Thomas Charley, Gentleman of Saint James, Middlesex    14 October 1690   
PROB 11/863/317    Will of Elizabeth Charley, Widow of Saint Luke , Middlesex    02 March 1761   
PROB 11/1145/339    Will of Samuel Charley of Saint Mary Whitechapel , Middlesex    15 September 1786   
PROB 11/1061/136    Will of Robert Charley, Seaman on Board His Majesty's Ship Monmouth    08 February 1780   
PROB 11/1668/433    Will of William Charley otherwise Chorley, Private in 59th Regiment of Chatham , Kent    30 April 1823   
PROB 11/782/236    Will of Charles Charley, Rag Merchant of Saint Luke Old Street, Middlesex    14 September 1750   

And just to be accurate I checked for Charlie and Charly and nothing with that surname spelling.

 The Devon Archives did yield 11 references but none that would be helpful. My mother often alluded to the idea that the surname spelling was somewhat erratic as she had only heard the name from her father although did think she had seen it in a Bible. The only Bible I have seen for the Pincombe family is that one that was created by my great grandfather. If there is an older Pincombe family bible it has not yet appeared in my eyesight!

 

Waiting for clear skies and working on the Charley/Charly family

I have been waiting for clear skies for awhile now. Perhaps this week will be better for star gazing.  But in the meantime I am back to working on the Charley book hoping to complete that this week and I think I will publish it to my blog just to make it available. It is over 50 years since it was first published. Although a second Charley family book has been published and is available on Family Search:

https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/500397-the-charley-family-from-gloucestershire?viewer=1&offset=25#page=1&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=

This second book adds to the first in that all of the children from the "first family named with the surname Charley" are now listed and traced down into the present. Congratulations to Derrick Reeves for producing this book to add to the earlier book. It is always good when family history is written up in a book that is accessible. 

I have not verified any of the details in the "Romance of the Charley Family" written by Irene H Charley in 1970. I do find the Chorley surname in the index of the Visitation of Cheshire, 1613 transcribed by the Harlequin Society in 1909 and available online:

 http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk/visitations1613/1613.pdf

and the list in the index: Chorley, 5, 18, * 19, 21, 78, 91, 134, 200, 248, *

Several of the references refer to the Bebington family of Bebington and Chorley (namely, 5, 18, 19, 78), the Dauenport family of Chorley (namely 21, 91), the Dodd family of Chorley (namely 134), the Brome family of Chorley (namely 200) and the Fowden family of Chorley (namely 248). 

The National Archives of the UK hold 49 articles and other archives 499 articles when a search is made on Discovery for Richard Chorley. The first item from 1652 in the Lancashire Archives discusses the sequestered estate of Richard Chorley. They are from the Lancashire County Quarter Sessions and it is a petition QSP/67 (Ormskirk, Midsummer, 1652). There are a number of documents in the Lancashire Archives concerning Richard Chorley's forfeited estates (dated 30 Jul 1684). Probably I should order the document for the sequestered estate of Richard Chorley and will do that in the near future likely. One is left to surmise though that the Chorley family not being listed in the Visitations of 1613 is rather interesting as this does precede all the difficulties encountered during the 1600s.

My branch of Charley in Devonshire is not overly covered in this book other than to imply that this line which held property at Combe Martin had an alcohol problem which resulted in a rather see-saw family fortune to disaster in their history there. I always wondered why Mary Charly signed the parish register at the time of her marriage as Mary Pincomb and perhaps that is the answer!

First DNA Circle at AncestryDNA

Finally I have a DNA Circle at AncestryDNA with the descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe. Each of the members descends from three different sons of this couple. Robert and Elizabeth had eight children - 7 sons and 1 daughter. We descend from the eldest son Robert, the second eldest son John and the youngest son Philip. Richard, second youngest, did not have any children, William the third son died young. Thomas the fourth son died in a shipwreck with his wife and children coming to Canada. The only son not mentioned was George, the fifth son, whose family stayed in England while he went to Australia where he died. This is an amazing happening to have this DNA circle for the Pincombe family.

There are ten or more trees on Ancestry for the Pincombe family and it will be interesting to see the final DNA Circle once all that material is digested by the search engines. There are errors in some people's trees and perhaps this will be an opportunity to repair those errors if people wish to do so. One of the reasons for my doing the one name study of the Pincombe family is to clear up the mistakes that were created over time by various trees that were produced.

The next issue of the Pincombe newsletter should certainly have some interesting copy.

Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter Volume 1 Issue 1

Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter

Table of Contents

1.   Coat of Arms of the Pincombe Family of South Molton

2.   yDNA Study of the Pincombe-Pinkham Family

3.   Autosomal Study of the descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe

4.   Visitation of Devon – Pincombe – 1620 (with additions) compared to earlier Visitations

5.   Pincombe line of the Editor

Coat of Arms of the Pincombe Family of South Molton

Only one line, as far as I am aware, of the Pincombe Family has ever been entitled to bear the coat of arms pictured in this newsletter. This was the Pincombe line at South Molton. The Grant from the Royal College was in 1616 to John Pyncombe who was married to Amy Dodridge sister to Judge Dodridge (daughter of Richard Dodridge of Barnstaple). His son also bore these arms, John Pincombe (Barister of the Middle Temple) married to Mary daughter of Sir John Carew of Crowcombe. I do not know if the son of John Pincombe, Richard Pincombe, ever bore these arms in the short year after his father died and before he died. I believe that Gertrude sister to Richard may have borne these arms as the eldest daughter but that would have ended with her. The wealth of this particular Pincombe family formed The Pyncombe Trust which still exists today at Poughill.

yDNA study of the Pincombe-Pinkham family

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Pincombe-Pinkham?iframe=yresults

Although I started this project at FT DNA back in 2008, it is only at this time that there are sufficient results to really discuss the yDNA portion of the results for the Pincombe-Pinkham family. I should mention that I am developing very much of a hands-off approach to these DNA studies. Although this is likely a singleton family, there are still going to be possibilities for differing results. There could be an occasion where a line daughtered out and a male has taken his wife’s surname for whatever reason. There is always the possibility of adoption especially in the early years in the American Colonies given the high death rate. As well, the possibility of not the expected male line could also occur in the case of illegitimacy. 

Thus far there are two distinct lines for this family:

R1b haplogroup (North Devon ancestry) and I haplogroup (Colonial America).

Obviously these two are not related in any sort of genealogical timeframe. A suggestion was made to me by one of the members of the Pinkham-1 group that in his researching he had discovered the possibility that an ancient ancestor had been adopted by a Pincombe family in the 1600s in Colonial America. This would certainly account for the difference. 

The three results for the North Devon family (and the Pinkham result which has not yet been able to find their emigrant ancestor although I have placed him in this grouping because he matches the other two in a reasonable genealogical timeframe accounting for any differences) are from the R1b haplogroup generally referred to as R-L21. All results belong to R-L21 although the haplogroup testing has only been performed on the one sample but the SNP M269 is upstream of the SNP L21. None of these three men are an exact match but in each case they are separated by hundreds of years with the first sample being descendant of the Barnstaple/Bideford Pincombe family, the second being descendant of my line at Bishops Nympton and the third being in the American Colonies and traced back into the mid 1700s thus far. Family lore links the family at South Molton/North Molton with the Barnstaple/Bideford Pincombe family. In particular William Pincombe who left his will in 1602 probated 1605 had seven sons and to date I have only been able to trace three of them down into a reasonable time frame with all remaining in the South Molton/North Molton area into the 1800s. 

Unfortunately the three results for the group labeled Pinkham-1 are not quite so clearcut. Two members of this group are a good match but the third member does not match them although he too belongs to haplogroup I. Time may well answer all questions in that regard.

Until recently I have more or less ignored the yDNA study because I wasn’t able to resolve the differences in the results but the addition of the two R1b results has clarified the study and renewed my thoughts on the value of the yDNA study. 

I had received 14 charts (bulletin board sized) from the earlier Pincombe researchers which I am slowly entering into Legacy (I do have these charts in electronic form) which showed that Pincombe and Pinkham were used interchangeably by a number of the descendant families in North Devon and elsewhere although in my Pincomb/Pincombe line at Bishops Nympton the spelling Pinkham was never used in any English records.

Autosomal Study of the descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe

The excitement of autosomal DNA is slowly seeping into one-name studies. Women can not test for their ancestors in any male line unless they have a male to test for them – father, brother, male cousin in that line, or uncle. But women can test their autosomal DNA and match with other descendants of particular ancestors. In this case I have a number of interesting matches with descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe our mutual 3x great grandparents (or 4x great grandparents in one of the matches).

As these studies grow and more people test a number of interesting facts are emerging. Perhaps the most important is that siblings do not inherit equally from their grandparents; it can be quite amazingly different. A number of my siblings have tested and the differences between us are remarkable but well within the limits of being full siblings. In some cases one sibling may match a cousin on more chromosomes than another sibling giving a much rounder picture of the DNA of the most recent common ancestor.

The X-Descendant (red) set of results are male individuals who have tested their Y DNA and have joined the study because they have autosomal DNA results. Eventually I hope to come up with a method to display the Family Finder results but to date I have not yet been able to discover an interesting but anonymous way to reveal these results.

Visitation of Devon – Pincombe – 1620 (with additions) compared to earlier Visitations

The above image is of “The Visitations of the County of Devon” 1620 with additions. Over time, I tended to mostly use this particular copy because it appeared to be more complete than the others. However a rather interesting change had occurred over time between this particular Visitation and the original 1620 Visitation of Devon.

Probably the biggest change is the naming of the sons of the original Pyncombe of Northmolton who arrived there with Lord de la Zouche circa 1485. Of note, Lord de la Zouche was attainted after the Battle of Bosworth Field. One could wonder if our Pyncombe ancestor was also at Bosworth Field fighting with Richard III but to date I have not yet found anything to collaborate that possibility. The sons in the original Visitation were listed as Thomas (lived at Filleigh (and my ancestor), John and an unknown Pyncombe rather than two with the forename John and one Thomas. Now the Visitation with additions provides extra information beyond the 1620 Visitation and is rather handy to use which is why I forgot over time that the names of the sons had been altered.

Pincombe Line of the Editor

At the time of producing this list I am still in the process of gathering up all the references and I am in disagreement with the original study by the Pincombe-Pinkham one name study. A cousin of mine checking with the Royal College was told that it was probably not possible to separate out the descendant lines of John Pincombe and Johane Blackmoore so that there are a couple of generations below this couple down to my ancestor John PIncombe and Mary Charlie. However, I did transcribe the entire Bishops Nympton Parish Registers and feel that I have been able to separate out these lines and determine the generations between John Pincombe/Johane Blackmoore and John Pincombe/Mary Charlie. 

My ancestor Richard Pincombe at Bishops Nympton baptized his eldest son William in 1599 but his first wife died shortly after. He remarried and had a second family at Bishops Nympton. He did not marry his first wife at Bishops Nympton and I have not yet found that marriage but he is mentioned in his father’s will (William Pincombe of East Buckland) as is his son William. 

1. Elizabeth BLAKE

2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE

3. John Routledge PINCOMBE (b 10 Sep 1872)

4. William Robert PINCOMBE (b 11 Jun 1837) - Molland Devon

5. John PINCOMBE (b 5 Jul 1808) - Bishops Nympton Devon

6. Robert PINCOMBE (b 4 Oct 1775) - Bishops Nympton Devon

7. John PINCOMBE (b 13 Feb 1728) - Bishops Nympton Devon

8. John PNCOMBE (b 12 Jun 1692) - Bishops Nympton Devon

9. William PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1656) - Bishops Nympton Devon

10. John PINCOMBE (b 19 Jan 1622) - Bishops Nympton Devon

11. Willyam PINCOMBE (b 23 Mar 1599) - Bishops Nympton Devon

12. Richarde PINCOMBE (bc 1570s) - East Buckland Devon

13. Willyam PYNCOMBE (bc 1530s) - East Buckland Devon

14. Thomas PENCOMBE (bc 1500s) – North Molton/Filleigh Devon

15. Unknown PENCOMBE/PYNCOMBE

Submissions to the Newsletter

Please feel free to submit material to the Newsletter. I will publish the Pincombe entries in the Bishops Nympton Parish Registers and other Registers that I have transcribed in North Devon. 

Please submit the articles to: Kippeeb@rogers.com

Newsletter for Pincombe-Pinkham one name study

A long time in the thinking process and an equally long time actually being written, the first issue of the Pincombe-Pinkham newsletter will be published 1 Dec 2015 on this blog and available also on the Pincombe-Pinkham DNA study website at FT DNA.

The first issue is a look at the Pincombe family from a general point of view in terms of them having been armigerous at one point in the past, the Pincombe-Pinkham yDNA study, the autosomal DNA study, the Visitation of 1620 of Devon, my own line of Pincombe and a request for submissions. It is eight pages in length and it may be longer or shorter the next time. I suspect it will always be somewhat around the ten pages as I have a lot of material that I want to place online for this family so that it is accessible instead of being locked up in my computer and bookshelf.

My choosing Pincombe as a one name study (and the earlier study included Pinkham so I did that as well) stems directly from my mother being a Pincombe prior to marriage. She talked a lot about her family as she knew it when I was a child and as I discovered once the genealogy bug had bitten me that indeed she had a very accurate knowledge of her ancestors and where they had lived. She knew many many of their names (female ancestors) with good accuracy.

I also discovered a lot about my mother's character that I did not know as a child growing up in her household (a household I left at the age of 20 years when I married). I probably would have known more about her had I stayed longer as an adult but the mother that I knew remained pretty much the same up until I married. Then we moved away so that our visits back were short and we really never talked a lot until the time came for my parent's 50th anniversary and she really did want someone to do some family research. My husband agreed to take on the task and dragged me off to the Family History Library to see what could be found. Almost nothing on my father's parents/grandparents in the mid 1980s as it turned out and not a great deal on my mother's parents/grandparents as they did not hold the films that I needed to look at in house. My husband though had the foresight to actually sit and talk to my mother and take down all the information that she knew (which proved to be quite accurate) and the same with my father although I did have some memories of my grandfather talking about his Blake line that was also helpful.

We did manage to put together all the great great grandparents as we knew them but that was pretty much the limit of it. My mother also gave my husband a stack of old letters, old pictures and other memorabilia which we perhaps supposed to return but I guess that got forgotten on both of our parts and nearly twenty years later my husband was going through an old trunk and found the box that she had given him. A treasure trove for me as by that time around 2004 I was into family history. One of the letters had an address from 10 years prior and we did write to that address at the time of the 50th anniversary history search and the letter was forwarded to a cousin by the present homeowner there and we did acquire some photos and a little information to put into the family history.

But as mentioned I learned a lot more about my mother's character working on family history of which I was unaware. She was very gregarious and extremely thoughtful as a person. These traits are not overly noticed by children I suspect as she was also a very strict mother and permitted no deviations from her assigned protocol on how a day would unfold! Interesting that my grandmother (her mother) I found to be a very sweet kindly overly flexible person but my mother certainly painted her mother as being much the same as I saw my mother! My own children adored my mother and took her death at 85 years very hard. The last time they had seen her she was well and healthy so her sudden death was an enormous shock to them. They saw her as this wonderful thoughtful kind grandmother who fitted her day around them to suit whatever they wanted to do. Perhaps it is that tendency of grandmothers/mothers that makes us the kind of people we are today.

Pincombe yDNA and its ramifications with respect to the Pincombe - Pinkham one name study

The matches in the Pincombe yDNA this past week have been phenomenal. I had not been able to persuade my closest Pincombe cousins to test (all third cousins) but at last long I do have a 3rd cousin once removed who has tested and he matches 24/25 with a fifth cousin in Australia. The one step out is rather convenient actually.

The Australian cousin descends from William Pincombe (baptized 21 Dec 1769 at Bishops Nympton, Devon son of John Pincombe and Mary Charley who married 8 Nov 1767 at Bishops Nympton) through his son William (baptized 1 Jan 1802 at Bishops Nympton) and he married Maria Torrington 15 May 1822 at Bishops Nympton. They had nine children a number of whom emigrated to Australia.

My recent tester descends from Robert Pincombe (baptized 4 Oct 1775 at Bishops Nympton and also a son of John Pincombe and Mary Charley) through his son Robert Pincombe baptized 2 Sep 1804 at Bishops Nympton) and he married Mary Shapland around 1835. They had two children both born in the United States.

I descend from Robert Pincombe through his son John Pincombe baptized 5 Jul 1808 at Bishops Nympton and married to Elizabeth Rew 9 Jan 1835 at Bishops Nympton. They had five children all born in Molland, Devon and they emigrated to Canada in 1850. John Pincombe was my 2x great grandfather.

A second result in the project matches 34/37 with my third cousin once removed and that particular tester is descendant of the Pincombe family at Barnstaple, Devon. These two Pincombe lines are separated by hundreds of years but interestingly enough they match on DYS458 with our fifth cousin having the value of 18 instead of the 17 which the two other Pincombes show at this particular allele. One is left to conjecture that perhaps 17 is ancestral to the Pincombe family with 18 being a mutation showing up in the descendants of William Pincombe. The other two differences with this other tester are in DYS464 where my cousin has 14,15,16,17 and the Barnstaple Pincombe descendant has 14, 15, 15, 16 as well as at DYS570 where my cousin has the value of 18 and the other tester 17 and also CDY, my cousin has 36-38 and the other tester 37-38. All of these markers are considered fast moving so that a mutation in one of them occurs frequently in people's lines if a mutation does happen.

Hopefully more Pincombe males will test in the study giving us a more complete picture of the Pincombe family.

I also am left with a rather clear answer to the riddle of the Pincombe and Pinkham families. They do appear to be distinctly different. The charts I have do show the tendency in some of the family lines to use the spelling interchangeably.

I now need to do a little research on Pinkham to see how far back I can find this spelling along with Tinkham in Devon and cornwall.

Pincombe and ydna - a match

The ydna results for my 3rd cousin once removed are now available and there is a 24 on 25 match with our known 5th cousin in Australia. That is 5th cousin to me and fourth cousin once removed to the current testor. The difference of one is actually rather handy as the new testor traces back to Robert and the match from Australia traces back to William both of whom are sons of John Pincombe and Mary Charley.

More to come and I believe that I will start a newsletter for the Pincombe/Pinkham family.

Charley family

An interesting set of emails have gone back and forth between another member of the Charley family and myself. This Charley family is mentioned in the published book on the Charley family by Irene H Charley published in 1970 and titled: The Romance of the Charley Family. The crest of the Charley family appears on the front of the book. Chapter 13 talks about the Charley family of Jamaica and this individual is a descendant of that family.

My own line does not appear in the book as such but would possibly be considered to be in the chapter about North Devon although the spelling is Charlie by the priest. He had Mary sign as Mary Pincombe so I shall never know how she spelled her name! unless I am rather lucky.   For those unable to obtain a copy of this particular publication, The Devon family of North Devon is said to be descendant of a Hugh Charley who was of Irish descent. That this Hugh Charley came from Belfast and that they were located in Combe Martin and Kentisbury as yeoman farmers. I have recorded records for the Hugh Charley family at Combe Martin and Kentisbury in another blog:

http://kippeeb.blogspot.ca/search/label/Kentisbury

Chapter 10, page 69 begins the chapter on The Charleys of North Devon. Mention is made of a Hugh Charley and his wife Izis and for whom spoons were apparently created with the date 1761 and the initial I.C. They farmed at Combe Martin and Kentisbury. The oldest record that I have for a Charley family at Combe Martin is the baptism of the oldest child of Hugh and Charity Charley named Hugh and this baptism took place 25 Jan 1676. Most of the information is on the Charley family in the 1800s and1900s with a comment that they had been in North Devon for several centuries.

According to the book there is a marriage of Hugh Chorley (did he leave Ulster?) marrying Izis Watts at Bradford 17 Nov 1668. Is he the Hugh Charley found at Combe Martin as a church warden in 1699 (the book hints at that). A silver spoon was handed down in the North Devon family with the initials I.C. 1761.

The book has carefully gathered together a lot of information on the Charley families around the world with a number of genealogical charts. I can not yet place my Mary Charlie/Charley in any of these families although she likely was born in North Devon somewhat closeby to Bishops Nympton where she married John Pincombe in 1767. That she signed the parish register at this time is interesting in itself.

She has signed her name with a clear hand and nicely formed letters.

There are no other Charley/Chorley/Churley/Charlie families in the Bishop Nympton parish records at this time.

It is always nice to hear from possible cousins and I have a match on autosomal DNA with a person who has a Charley in his line. If we are able to find the common ancestor this might lead back to the Charley family at Comb Martin.