Showing posts with label Sidderfin. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Sidderfin. Show all posts

Thursday, January 26, 2023

Protestation Returns for Somerset

Spent a good portion of the day working my way through the Somerset Protestation Returns for Somerset. Since I was doing the task I also extracted Blake, Escott, Trill, Nurcombe, Westerne, Couch, Chorley/Charley/Churley, Question and Rew as well as Siderfin/Sidderfin. It was a task I had often thought of doing and the opportunity presented itself. I did not find any more Sidderfin/Siderfin names than I already had located using the index. I also have the Parliamentary copies of the original to look at from their excellent website. I need to read through Minehead. 

What I am trying to prove, and it looks even more doable than before, is that the three children baptized at Minehead are all children of the same Robert and Ursula (Webber) Siderfin known to be at Minehead. Namely that is Wilmot Siderfin in 1614, Robert Siderfin in 1616 and John Siderfin 1619. I know that my Siderfin family at Selworthy also lived at Bratton just outside of Minehead at that time but part of Minehead now. James Sanders himself mentions property at Dunster that his mother was involved with at some point. Dunster is the location for the Question family and John's son Robert married Elizabeth Question of Dunster and James' mother Elizabeth was the eldest daughter of the eldest son according to his chart). James Sanders in his pedigree chart lists three children below John Siderfin whom he names as the only descendant of Robert which is incorrect it would appear. Learning more about Wilmot and Robert Siderfin the other two children baptized at Minehead would be interesting. I do have the Parish Registers for Minehead both the fiche of the original records and the Index of those records. I am at that place in time when I handed over the project to my cousin and decided to take on the Blake one-name study. Although I found Siderfin very interesting I did feel that my cousin was in a better position to do the research that, at that time, needed to be done in person at the Somerset Record Office. Time has passed and more and more information is online including the excellent search tool of the Archives at Somerset with lots of information. 

Today I continue with the Protestation Returns and plan to complete that task. In my mind I already feel that I have accomplished the task of linking John at Selworthy in 1641 with the John baptized at Minehead in 1619. He does appear to marry late (his children are baptized in 1656, 1658 and 1660 making him 37 when the first child was baptized. His wife Thomasine was likely younger than him as she was buried in 1709 at Wootton Courtney. James Sanders links three children with this marriage of John and Thomasine and they are as follows: the eldest son of John was said to be a John and he lived at Wootton Courtney, the next son Robert lived at Selworthy and the youngest son William lived at Minehead. Thomasine's will would have provided a lot more information than the abstract but as life flows that is all that there is. The abstract only mentions the son Robert, a "cousin" Robert Siderfin of Linch and all the children of Robert and his wife Elizabeth (Question) Siderfin. But Thomasine was buried at Wootton Courtney and Robert lived always at Selworthy. 

Interesting conundrum and the solution does lie in what is available one hopes. It doesn't matter in the long run in terms of just who the John at Wootton Courtney and the William at Minehead are when I reflect on my own line but for the sake of the Siderfin family study and the revision of James Sanders text I need to find as much information as I can. Will I ever register the study again? At 77 that seems a bit of a pipe dream to be honest. I am seeing myself as publishing and winding down in my studies although still very active with them. 

So on with the study. On with the day and on with breakfast!

Glory to Ukraine and may she drive the Russians from her land. The murder of so many Ukrainian children, women and men hangs heavy on the world; one prays that the tanks will bring an end to this useless war of aggression that Russia has wrought on the world. May it be the last of such wars of greed for land and riches.


Monday, January 23, 2023

Cleaning Day and the Protestation Returns of Somerset

One always seems to be constantly returning to the same datasets as I look once again at the Somerset Protestation Returns in between cleaning bouts today. I do not remember now if I ever sought out the Siderfin family in the Protestation Returns. I indexed my blog with a purpose as far as my one-name studies were concerned and back on the 16th July 2009 I did look at that. However I can not trust that I have actually located all of them and so I will repeat the survey of the Protestation returns and Subsidy 1641-42 as the idea of really different spellings of surnames but still foreign to me in 2009 - slowly seeping in but I know that I did not do a thorough enough job of seeking them out. 

Protestation Returns - 1641-42
Sidderfin Thomas gent Carhampton 1.
Sidderfin Robert Luxborough 2.
Sidderfin Thomas Luxborough 3.
Siderfin William overseer Luxborough 4.
Sidderfin Robert Minehead 5.
Sidderfin John Selworthy 6.

Subsidy 1641-42

Surname Forename Suffix s d Parish
Syderfyn Thos gent 5 6 Carhampton 7.
Syderfyn Thomas 11 Cutcombe 8.
Syderfin Cristian 6 8 Luxborow Everard 9.
Syderfin William 4 8 Luxborow Everard 10.
Syderfyn Thomas 4 6 Minehead 11.
Syderfyn Robert rater 4 7 Minehead 12.
Syderfyn Robert sen 4 Timberscombe 13.
Syderfyn Robert jun 3 Timberscombe 14.
Syderfyn Wm rater 8 1 Treborough Browne 15.
Syderfyn Robert 13 6 Wotton Courtney 16.

At this time I did know about James Sanders book and did have an electronic copy. Reading though my blog of the 16th July 2009 I am looking at the age of Robert (will probated 1627/8) and when he was born. I query whether in 1568 when William Sidervin's will was probated Robert and his sister Jone (married to William Westerne (Westeron in 1602)) were still young. One thought that has come to me is the date of the marriage of William Sidervin and Wilmot Foster. The creation of the indenture in 1534-35 does not necessarily mean that William and Wilmot married at that time. They could have both been young and that could well move the date of Robert's and Jone's birth on and I must learn more about the Muster Rolls and how young an individual might be on those rolls. After all the children of Kings of England went off to sea as midshipman at the age of twelve years even in the 1900s. Each year gained makes this will by Robert in 1627/28 all the more plausible and if he was but 12 years of age in 1569 then we are looking at a date of birth in 1557 which would make him an even more reasonable age to be married and baptizing children in the 1580s and 1590s and even up to 1602. One must be a history sleuth as well in order to make sense of one's family. At that point, when I wrote that blog in 2009,  I had not located the Somerset Muster Rolls naming a Robert Siderfin in 1569. Interesting my thoughts and it is not long after this that I gave the Siderfin study away to my cousin and I only just realized in the past year that my cousin was no longer doing a one-name study on Siderfin! Life does move and change for sure. 

I like to be logical and that shows up in these files - I have no idea why I numbered each of these lines and the remainder of the blog text that day does not elucidate that reasoning either. But I shall leave them in in case they bring back a memory!

Speaking of logic; one wonders why would a country invade another country on a trumped up charge of Nazism when that country (namely Russia) has only shown Nazi tendencies themselves as they ruthlessly invade the countries on their borders stealing land and riches. Is it because they want to kill off the young men in their country who might have thoughts of separating from Russia itself? (These Nazis Putins and his enablers well know that the rest of the world does not want a Third World War and they hold us ransom threatening us again and again with a nuclear war hoping to get us to back off helping Ukraine.) One wonders - what is their logic? After all the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan for land and wealth but ended up retreating back having lost a lot of young men and causing the bankruptcy of the Soviet Union and its breakup. Putin considers this to be a travesty that the Soviet Union is gone but we see it as freedom for millions of people held captive by the Soviet Union for over 50 years (and those people will fight for their freedom; Russia should never think anything else; no one wants to be part of the Soviet Union except Russia herself and Belarus it appears). Is there any logic that fits sending the youth of their country to die on the battlefields of Ukraine in the thousands by the way - it is believed that thousands and thousands of young Russian men have died on these battlefields without proper equipment to aid them (the sons of the psychopathic Nazis Putin and his enablers are enjoying life in Moscow they are not dying on the battlefields of Ukraine). These young men of Russia dying in Ukraine have basically been used as cannon fodder and to what end? In the long run, it is a false idea because these young men who have been called up and have actually reported for duty are the least likely to rock the boat and create a revolution but the way that they are being used is giving them the incentive to refuse to follow orders. Russia will create her own revolution once again within her own borders because she invaded a free country namely Ukraine and has been spilling the blood of children, women and men of Ukraine ever since. The land is soaked in their blood; they will fight Russia until Russia leaves, Poland has been given permission to send their tanks to Ukraine by Germany. Russians go home; women of Russia call your men home before they are all dead on the battlefields of Ukraine where they have no right to be anyway - Ukraine is a free country. Russia should be a free country but the Nazis Putin and his enablers along with Patriarch Kirill are lying to you and they have made Russia a land of serfs and Nazis overlords. The Nazis are Russians trying to steal land and riches from Ukraine. Throw away your uniforms and go home to your aging fathers and mothers, go home to your wives and families - Russia is using you as cannon fodder. Glory to Ukraine. Death to the invaders.

Thursday, July 16, 2009

Siderfin - 1

I spent my day on the Siderfin family looking at the Parish Registers, Protestation Returns and Tax Subsidies.

Protestation Returns - 1641-42
Sidderfin Thomas gent Carhampton 1.
Sidderfin Robert Luxborough 2.
Sidderfin Thomas Luxborough 3.
Siderfin William overseer Luxborough 4.
Sidderfin Robert Minehead 5.
Sidderfin John Selworthy 6.

Subsidy 1641-42

Surname Forename Suffix s d Parish
Syderfyn Thos gent 5 6 Carhampton 7.
Syderfyn Thomas 11 Cutcombe 8.
Syderfin Cristian 6 8 Luxborow Everard 9.
Syderfin William 4 8 Luxborow Everard 10.
Syderfyn Thomas 4 6 Minehead 11.
Syderfyn Robert rater 4 7 Minehead 12.
Syderfyn Robert sen 4 Timberscombe 13.
Syderfyn Robert jun 3 Timberscombe 14.
Syderfyn Wm rater 8 1 Treborough Browne 15.
Syderfyn Robert 13 6 Wotton Courtney 16.


Robert and Elizabeth Siderfin baptize a daughter Elizabeth in 1657 at Timberscombe. In 1731 Joan Siderfin daughter of Robert and Joan is baptized. No baptism for Robert Siderfin at Timberscombe. There doesn't appear to be a continuous family line at Timberscombe although Robert Senior and Robert Junior are both found at Timberscombe on the 1641-42 Subsidy.

Historical Perspective: John Siderfin died before 1551 leaving a son William because of the Chancery Proceedings of Siderfin v Foster (see Sanders Book). By 1553, a writ dated 14 May 7 Edward VI (1553) was executed requesting the presence of William and Christian (his wife) Siderfin at Westminster. William left a will dated 20 Aug 1568 and proved at Taunton 15 May 1572 in which he names his son Robert and daughter Jone (married to William Westerne). Robert was born before 1568. The daughter Jone doesn't marry William Westerne until 13 Feb 1602. They have a son Robert mentioned in the will of Jone's brother Robert in 1628. With these thoughts in mind one is left to wonder if Jone was still a young child when William wrote his will. By the time Robert's will is written in 1627 it is 59 years since Robert was mentioned in his father's will. He too could have been still a young child.

Transcription of the will of Robert Siderfin (Probated 31 January 1628)

In the name of God Amen The
nineteenth daie of August in the yeare of our Lord God one thousand sixt hundred
twentie and seaven I Robert Siderfin of the parish of Luxborowe within the
dioces of Bath and Wells being somewhat sicke in body but of perfect minde
and memory praise bee to allmightie god therefore. I doe make this my last will and
testament in manner and forme following. First I bequeath my soule to allmightie
god and my body to bee buried in the Chauncell of Luxborowe Item I give to the Cathedrall
church of Wells vijd. Item I give to Robert Siderfin the sonne of William Siderfin and
to Robert Westeron the sonne of William Westeron and to Robert Siderfin the sonne of
Robert Siderfine of Mynehead to any of them one heafer yeardling Item I give to all the
rest of my sonne and daughters children to every of them five Ewe sheepe apiece Item I give to
the poore of Cutcombe 6s and to the poore of Luxborowe 6s. Item I give to William

[page 2]

Siderfin my sonne my best meane and ploughstuffe for eight ____ to bee deliv[ere]d him after the decease
of Christian my wife and the cubbard in the hall and table board in the farme to bee delivered as abovesaid
Item I give unto Marie Siderfin my daughter unmarried two hundred pounds. Item I give and
bequeath unto Thomas Siderfin my sonne and Mary Siderfin my Daughter all that tearme of
yeares and estate which I have in a tenement called South Wheddon lying within the parish of
Cutcombe Item I give unto the said Thomas Siderfin and Marie Siderfin my seale for yeares
for to Keepe one hundred sheepe upon Brundon and my whole interest and estate therein as
alsoe I give unto the said Thomas Siderfin and Mary Siderfin my lease for tearme of yeares
which I have in Seaven acres of wood lying within the parish of Luxborrowe be my part of Priory
Wood and all such trees as are by the same lease granted mee with forsaid premises are lying
within the Countie of Somerset Item I give unto every of my Godchildren twelve pence apiece
And fourtie pounds of my said daughter Marys portion or also my daughter Janes portion
which is yet unpaid in a great parte is to bee paid by my sonne William unto one of them
which he upon good consideration hath undertaken to paie Item I give unto Elner Westeron and
Johanne Doutch three pounds apiece to bee paid within two years after my decease the residue
Of my goods not given nor disposed I give and bequeath unto Christian my wife and Thomas
Siderfin my sonne whom I make my sole Execators of this my last will In witness whereof
I have hereunto sett my hand Robert Siderfin Witnessed here unto The marke of
Christopher Webber The marke of Robert Coyp The marke of John Burges


We know the date of the marriages of William and Robert Siderfin (sons mentioned in the will) - William married Christian Webber 5 Feb 1610 at Loughborough and Robert married Ursula Webber 23 July 1612. These two were probably born after 1568 since they are not mentioned in the will. In the will he does mention that his son and grandson Robert Siderfin (12.) are living at Minehead. The baptism of the grandson at Minehead was in the register 27 May 1616. We can now start to put the members of family into a date perspective. Since this is my likely line I can now see from John Siderfin (died by 1631) who was the furtherest back family patriarch with wife Christian to his two children William (already mentioned and married to Wilmot Foster (this holds up through the legal wrangling mentioned above)) and Christian who married George Escott 14 Jun 1542. This needs to be followed up a there is an Escott will later that passes land to my side of the Siderfin family plus there is an Escott marriage. I need to find any Escott children and trace them down. Following through William and Wilmot's children who are Robert and Jone. Robert married Christian

Robert Siderfin (12) (son of Robert and Christian) and his son Robert are clearly identified as being at Minehead. This is my likely ancestor. The will identifies the other two children of Robert Siderfin at Minehead as Wilmot and John. In 1647 none of them appear to be married although their baptisms are in 1614, 1616 and 1619. John receives a very small bequest but he is the younger son. Robert senior and junior at Timberscombe (13., 14.) would also appear to be this family as there aren't any other Robert father and son combination in 1641-42. Robert the father of Robert senior has died by 1628. The question though is the John (6.) at Selworthy on the Protestation Returns the youngest son of Robert senior (12.). James Hooper Sanders indicated he was on his chart. We do know that the Robert at Selworthy (baptized 23 Aug 1658) is the son of the widow Thomazine and that his son Augustine is her grandson from the will of Thomazine (not yet seen by me).

We need more information on John (baptized at Minehead) and John listed at Selworthy on the Protestation Returns. He does not pay subsidy in 1641-42 but he would only be 22 years old. That is the link for which we need to provide more proof.

Thomazine Siderfin (mother Robert and grandmother of Augustine) is buried at Wootton Courtney (11 Aug 1709). This brings me back to the Subsidy Chart and Robert Siderfin (16.) at Wootton Courtney in 1641-42 on the Tax Subsidy and he must be the Robert Siderfin (2.) at Luxborough on the Protestation Returns. The query that constantly arises is whom did Thomazine Siderfin marry? Since she is buried at Wootton Courtney, her son Robert is buried at Wootton Courtney, her son Augustine is buried at Wootton Courtney, his son Robert is buried at Selworthy but several of Robert's children are baptized at Wootton Courtney (including my 3x great grandmother) and the others at Selworthy. I think my next step is buying the will of Thomazine Siderfin once I find it!

Wills that I have abstracts of:

William Siderfin
Lived at Luxborough, Somerset
Will dated 20 Aug 1568
Probate 16 May 1572
Christian, burial in Chancel
All bequeathed to Wilmot, his wife
Witnessed by Mr. Alexander Sydenham

Christian Siderfin
Lived at Luxborough, Somerset
Widow
Will dated 28 Nov 1644
Probate 4 July 1648
Daughter Mary Gyldes (lives at Dunster, widow)
Son William Siderfin
Son Thomas Siderfin
Son Robert Siderfin
Daughter Wilmot Siderfin
Sons of Thomas Siderfin (her son) Thomas and Philip

Thomas Siderfin
the elder of Luxborough, Somerset
Gentleman
Will dated 6 Nov 1675 (no probate)
To the poor 10 pounds
His wife is Johan
Son Robert Siderfin
Son Thomas Siderfin (50 pounds) and all his law books
All children to receive one peece of Barbary gould
Grandchild La....
Johan his wife executrix

Thomas Siderfin
Middle Temple, London
Esquire
Will dated 17 Mar 1678
Will proved 15 June 1681 (by Ann Siderfin, widow)
Wife Ann
Brother Robert Siderfin and wife Ann to receive his messuages of Crodon, Manors of Exton and South Quarme (in Exton), lands in Carhampton, Somerset, and in Lambeth
100 pounds a year to his wife
50 pounds per year to Anne his daughter
Survivor of wife and brother to receive lands in Somerset

Katherine Sidderfin alias Graves
Croydon, Carhampton, Somerset
Died at Exeter
Husband Robert Sidderfin
Administration granted 23 Nov 1686 to husband

Thomas Siderfin
Luxborough, Somerset
Administration to his widow Mary 4 Nov 1687
Daughter Christian (wife of John Worth)

Mary Siderfin
Luxborough, Somerset
widow
Will dated 19 Nov 1689
Will proved 10 Oct 1693
Grandchildren: Susanna Worth, Christian Worth, Mary Worth and Sarah Worth
Daughter Christian Worth

Ann Siderfin
Lambeth
Widow
Will dated 22 Mar 1687
Will proved 5 Mar 1706
Buried at Lambeth near husband and mother
Aunt Gee
Aunt Gee's sons Orlando and Joe Gee
Cousin Gilbert East

William Siderfin
Minehead, Somerset
Gentleman
Will dated 9 Mar 1716
Will proved 17 Dec 1723
Niece Rachael Clothier
Wife Mary to be Executrix

Richard Blackford
Dunster, Somerset
King's Masters Extraordinary in the Court of Chancery
Will dated 8 Jan 1688
Will proved 4 Apr 1689
Wife Elizabeth Blackford
Son William
Daughter Sidwell Blackford
Sister Mary Coffin
Sister Christian Blackford
Cousin John Quirck
Cousin Robert Siderfin
Sister ....Hawkins
Son in law Edward Dyke
Daughter Elizabeth Dyke

Mary Quirke
Periton, Minehead, Somerset
Widow
Will dated 3 Mar 1728
Will proved 29 April 1730
Son in law Walter Siderfin
Grandson Thomas Quirke
Daughter Mary Question
Daughter Alice Siderfin
Son John Quirke
Son James Quirke
Son Robert Quirke
Son Thomas Quirke

Robert Quirck
Minehead, Somerset
Gentleman
Will dated
19 July 1731
Will proved 9 July 1731
Uncle Mr. Robert Siderfin (Executor)
Son of kinsman Mr. Walter Siderfin, is Robert Siderfin, gives his estate in Old Cleeve

With all these mentions of the Siderfin family in wills and abstracts I have not yet seen the will of Thomasine Siderfin (mother of Robert and grandmother of Augustine), widow. She was buried 11 Aug 1709 at Wootton Courtney.