Blake family

I wrote to the owner of one of the Blake trees on My heritage mostly because it shows descent from my 3x great grandparents Thomas Blake and Sarah (Coleman) Blake. I have a pretty extensive tree coming down from the parents of Thomas Blake (Joseph Blake and Joanna (King) Blake) which pretty much includes everyone known to me from discussions by my Grandfather Blake who lived with us when I was a child. However, I was only eight when he died so have always been open to other thoughts. A researcher in England put together a similar tree for a descendant who lives in Australia and he shared that with me about fifteen years ago now.

For the most part this family (looking at the fiche for the area parishes) lived at Upper Clatford from the marriage of Joseph Blake (from Andover) and Joanna King in 1757. This family continues to live at Upper Clatford (a few descendants). They also did live in neighbouring villages like Abbotts Ann, Monxton, Longparish, Little Ann, etc etc but mostly in that area around Andover.

This new tree has its main roots in Havant which is far to the south of Hampshire. I have worked on the Havant Blake family when I did the wills for Hampshire. I have no real ideas on their location before they are located there. It is unlikely that this line is descendant of Thomas Blake and Sarah (Coleman) Blake simply because all of their children and their descendants are accounted for in the research done by an earlier researcher in England (name escapes me at the moment but do have that in an email from the early 2000s) and myself.

The question really is how to proceed. Neither I nor any of my siblings match the ten descendants of the Blake Havant family who would be third cousins or third cousins once or twice or three times removed (I have long generations in my family due to my ancestor being a younger child (born in 1845) with much older siblings (born in the late 1820s and 1830s). This researcher has mentioned that they are not sure of that connection. Should I proceed and say that this connection is unlikely? or just leave them to realize that it is very unlikely? Always a quandry.

I actually have a similar problem much further back in my Blake tree. The parents of Joseph were Thomas Blake and Ann (Carter) Blake and he was the son of Thomas Blake and Mary (Spring) Blake. Thomas was their only child as far as I can tell and I do have the fiche for the areas around Andover. A Charles Blake was baptized at Abbotts Ann possibly in the exact same time period (I can not find that in the Abbotts Ann fiche and do suspect he was baptized elsewhere and the son of a different Blake line). I have given all that information to one of the individuals who kept attaching to my Family Search tree but this likely error is widely circulated and I encountered it again in the One World Tree. I am hoping that DNA may solve this mystery. I do not know for sure that the Blake line that I believe Charles descends from is the same as my Blake line. Finding a male to test his yDNA in that line would be really handy but it has not yet happened.

Since I help to manage the yDNA study for Blake at FT DNA I do have access to lots of Blake lines but my own line remains obscure primarily because of only children in the line for three generations and then my father was an only child a number of generations later. We do have autosomal matches with descendants of Thomas Blake and Sarah (Coleman) Blake which proves the line back to Thomas but as of yet no male Blake yDNA for this Upper Clatford/Andover family other than my brothers.

I thought I would write this blog post to see if anything came from my putting down in writing what I have been thinking. Again this line on My Heritage is not a male Blake line so no possibility of testing. The Blake ancestry is back several generations.

I think I will do what I usually do simply make people aware of all the information already available on the Blake line at Upper Clatford.

Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter Volume 1 Issue 2

Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter

Volume 1, Issue 2          1 Mar 2016

Table of Contents

1.   Pincombe Family at North Molton

2.   Will of Johanne Pencombe

3.   yDNA study

1.   Pincombe Family at North Molton

North Molton Parish Records
(Fiche purchased from Devon Record Office)

Baptisms

Pincombe Henrye       son Pincombe    George  Dorothie 1602 Dec 19

Pincombe Thomas      son Pincombe    Thomas               1616 Mar   30

Pincombe William son Pincombe Thomas     Joan          1639 Mar   31

Pincombe Thomas son Pincombe Thomas   Joan         1641 Apr    14

Pincombe Richarde son Pincome         Thomas     Joan          1644 Nov   10

Pincombe John son Pincome Thomas          Joan          1644 Nov   10

Pincombe Frances dau Pincome Bartholomew Frances         1647 Dec   12

Pincombe Robart son Pincombe Thomas     Joan          1648 Jan   21

Pincombe Richorde dau Pincombe Bartholomew Joan 1649 Feb   19

Pincombe John son Pincombe    Bartholomew     Joane 1654 Nov 27

Pincombe Thomas son Pincombe Thomas                      1670 Oct   18

Pincombe Mary daughter Pincombe Thomas        Agnis 1677 Apr  8

Pincombe Joane dau Pincombe William       Johane      1681 Oct   11

Pincombe William son Pincombe William       Joane        1683 Sep   18

Pincombe John son Pincombe    William       Joane        1685 Oct   27

Pincombe John son Pincombe    John          Elizabeth   1686 Mar   30

Pincombe Robert son Pincombe William       Joane        1687 May  5

Pincombe Thomas son Pincombe John        Elizabeth   1688 Jul    11

Pincombe Elizabeth dau Pincombe      John Elizabeth   1689 Jul    20

Pincombe Richard son Pincombe         Richard     Thomzine  1695 Feb   21

Pincombe William son Pincombe                    Thomazine         1699 Aug   25

Marriages

Groom Pincombe

Pyncombe John Hodge        Emet 1560 Jul    1

Pyncombe William       Gregorye   Margret     1564 Nov   26

Pincombe  Thomas     Smith         Joan 1635 Apr    28

Pincombe  William       Cole  Joane        1674 Feb   9

Pincombe  William       Mooreman Mary 1689 Sep   24

Bride Pincombe

__ydon       Phillip        Pincumbe  Margret     1539 Nov   15

Locke        William       Pyncombe Ales  1561 Nov   29

Squire        William       Pyncombe Margerett  1567 May  26

Squire        George      Pyncombe Mary 1567 Jul    20

Holloway Richard Pincombe        Thomazine         1688 Jan   3

Mallary      Nicholas Pincombe    Mrs. Temperance        1681 Jun   9

Burials

Pyncombe Marye        daughter   Pyncombe John          1555 Dec   7

Pyncombe Marye        daughter   Pyncombe John          1563 Feb   3

Pyncombe Elizabeth   wife  Pyncombe William                1563 Feb   18

Pyncombe William                                                       1564 Sep   13

Pyncombe William                                                       1565 Mar   25

Pyncombe Thomas                                                     1651 Dec   8

Pincomb    Joan                                                 1633 Jan   15              

Pincomb    William                                                       1637 Jan   29              

Pincombe  George                                                      1610 Jan   19              

Pincombe  Dorothie    widow                                              1610 Feb   2                

Pincombe  William son         Pincombe  Thomas     Katherine  1624 Dec   7                

Pincombe  Katherine  wife  Pincombe  Thomas               1636 Feb   5                

Pincombe  Elizabeth                                                   1645 Oct   13              

Pincombe  Bartholomew                                                     1656 Dec   24              

Pincombe  Richorde   dau   Pincombe  Bartholomew Joan 1657 May 21          

Pincombe  Frances dau Pincombe Bartholomew (deceased) Joane        1657 May          27              

Pincombe  Thomas     son   Pincombe  Thomas     1670 Dec   2                

Pincombe  John                                                 1673 Apr    5                

Pincombe  Robert                                                       1678 Jan   31              

Pincombe  Thomas                                                     1682 Aug   8                

Pincombe  John son   Pincombe  William       Joane        1685 Dec   12              

Pincombe  Robert       son   Pincombe  William       Joane 1687 Nov 5                

Pincombe  Thomas     son   Pincombe  John Elizabeth  1688 Jul    14              

Pincombe  Joane        wife  Pincombe  William                1688 Jul    25              

Pincombe  William       son   Pincombe  William       Joane 1688 Jan 31              

Pincombe  John                                                 1689 Jan   9                

Pincombe  Joane        widow                                              1690 Apr    6                

Pincombe  Elizabeth   wife  Pincombe  Richard      1693 Jul    2       of East Buckland

Will of Johanne Pencombe

Source: Public Record Office, London, UK, PROB 11/76 - Image reference 242/207

Place: East Buckland, Devon, England

Type of Record: Will

Dated: 7 May 1563

Condition: photocopy, bold, old English writing

[In margin] T[estator] Johanne Pencombe

1    In the name of God, Amen.  In the yeare

2    of our Lord God one thousand fyve hundred sixtie three and in the seaventh daie

3    of Maye That I Johane Pencombe widdowe of Est Buckland beinge of whole mynde

4    and in good remembrance (lauded be god) make and ordaine this my last will and

5    testament in this manner and forme followinge First I bequeathe my soule unto

6    allmightie God and my bodie to be buried in the Churche of Est Buckland there Item

7    I bequeath unto Richard Pencombe my sonne twentie poundes And to his sonne a

8    heafer of three yeares of age. Item I bequeath to John Locke my sonne in Law nyne

9    poundes. Item I bequeath to John Pencombe my sonne nyne poundes And to his

10    daughter a heafer. Item I bequeath to John Jasse my sonne in Lawe nyne poundes

11    Item I bequeath to John Jasse the younger six poundes thirteene shillings four pence

12    Item to Anne Takle twentie shillings Item to Amye Rolle six shillings eight pence

13    Item to Roberte Hollaniore a yearlinge Item to Thomas Hichton a ewe. Item to everie

14    of my Children's Children five shillinges eight pence. Item unto every of my godchildren

15    twelve pence apeece. Item to the poore twentie shillings. The residue of all my goodes

16    and everie parte thereof as well moveable as unmoveable not gyven nor bequeathed I give

17    and bequeath unto William Pencombe my sonne whome I make my executor and he to

18    bestowe it as he seemeth best And alsoe I devise and ordaine Sir John Taye John Hartill

19    and Richard Lympstable to be my overseers and wittnesses of this my last will and Testament

21    Probatum fuit Testamentum

22    Suprascriptum apud London coram venerabili, viro mag[ist]ro Will[iel]mo Levin Legium

23    Doctore ad exercend officium magisteri custodis sive Comissarii Curie Prerogative

24    Cant ltime deputat vicesimo tertio die mensis Octobris Anno Domini millesimo quin

25    Nonagesimo Juramento Thome Redman notary public procuratoris Willi[a]m Pencombe filii of

26    Executoris in h[uius]mo[d]i testamento nominat Qui commissa fuit administerato bonorum iurium et creditorum

27    Dicti defuncti de bene et fideliter administerand ad sancta dei Evangelia Jurat

3.      yDNA Study

The yDNA Study for the Pincombe/Pinkham family continues to be an evolving study with a few new people having joined with autosomal results. With five descendants of the Robert Pincombe/Elizabeth Rowcliffe currently in the study it is possible to link individuals to the Bishops Nympton Pincombe family if they match any or all of these individuals.

I will report at a longer length in the next newsletter which will be published the 1^st of June 2016.

Any material which you may wish to submit for the newsletter can be sent to

kippeeb@rogers.com

Blake yDNA study at FT DNA

A new member of the team looking after the Blake yDNA study. Patti Blake Goff has family lore that her Blake line (father was a Blake) descends from the Blake family at Galway. She joins the team to look at the Blake family in Ireland gradually working her way into that post. In the meantime enquiries on the Irish Blake family should continue to come to me and I continue to be the main person working on the assigning of Blake members to groups. There is one new member that I need to assign and will get to that process.

Where am I at with my Blake one name study? I have had a really busy summer and gradually getting back into genealogy once again. I have a few new projects which will take up a little of my time at the moment. They are long term projects and of great interest to me personally. They will tend to predominate in five years time when I step away from my Blake one name study.

I want to get back into the Cornwall Blake line. I have had one email from an individual descendant of this line questioning my thought that Blake in Cornwall was an emigrant in the early 1500s. Certainly my grandfather when he spoke of his Blake line believed that they had been in the Andover area for ever and I think that most people think that way. I think they may well have been in that general area for the last eight thousand years and one day proof might arise to substantiate that thought. But the testing by BritainsDNA certainly points to a very ancient line for this haplogroup. The I2a study at FT DNA does the same placing this group in the British Isles well before 4000 years before the present. How to handle such emails? Should one abandon a project because it goes against the thinking of an individual writing to you? I really do not know the answer to that question. I am an outsider looking in; I live in a country which was populated probably twelve thousand years ago or more by emigrants from Asia who also feel the same way that their people have been here for ever. What is forever anyway? Is it more than four generations because by four generations back a lot of people have forgotten where their families live unless a consistent effort was made to pass that information down. I was lucky that way in that my parents constantly mentioned where their families had lived in England (my father came to Canada as a child) and my mother is my only Canadian line with myself, my mother, her father and his mother being my only ancestors born in Canada and to date I only have known ancestors born in various counties of England.

So who does genealogy serve? It should serve everyone as it is the story of our ancestral lines all of which eventually converge way back in time. There was a time when the first Homo species arose on the earth probably spontaneously and successively as each one fought to survive in the environment into which it entered. We now know that many did not survive and that eventually only Homo Sapiens (our species) survived to multiply and occupy this planet. Genealogy serves that group of people because we are all one big family and eventually we will lay down our weapons and live together as God intended. Not one of us is superior to the other; our DNA tells us that.

Off my soapbox and I will return to Cornwall Blake once again extracting all the Blake entries from the census beginning in 1841 and moving forward this time. I tried the reverse and it was meaningful but this time I have the parish records for the earlier Blake lines there so should be able to do some linkages and discover where various family members ended up as the census moves towards 1911. The 1939 Register is soon to be released to help bridge that gap and the 1921 census not so far away now. I hope to have a picture of the Cornwall Blake family available to look at by the end of the year. To the best of my knowledge no one has tested their yDNA with a proven line back to the Blake families in Cornwall; certainly the present day descendants could be from those early Blake lines in both Cornwall and Devon and perhaps further afield.

Blake Newsletter - Volume 4, Issue 3

Blake Newsletter
Table of Contents
1.    Blake family at Bacton, Suffolk
2.    Galway Blake family
3.    Cornwall Blake Family
4.    Blake yDNA study

Blake family at Bacton, Suffolk
I was sent a rather interesting five page document on the Blake family at Bacton, Suffolk, England which had been prepared by a researcher for another member of a society to which I belong. She decided to pass it on to me for my use. I entered all the material into Legacy checking against Family Search records, Find My Past and Ancestry since I do not live in Suffolk and could not check the Record Office. I did check the information online at the Record Office. Once completed I extracted a text file of the descendants of the furtherest back Blake member and put that into my blog noting that an earlier research had done the work but unable to name the earlier researcher:
http://kippeeb.blogspot.ca/2015/07/a-suffolk-blake-family-at-bacton.html

Galway Blake Family
I completed the project of extracting all the information from Michael Joseph Blake’s two volume set on the Blake Family of Ireland from 1300 to 1600 and 1600 to 1900. His genealogical tabulated information was extensive and he also included many many early documents that he held the originals plus he also went into the Court House in Dublin and extracted information as needed. What a most fortunate publication for the Blake family in Ireland as the Dublin Fire of 1922 destroyed many of the early records of Ireland. I have now extracted the census information for the Blake families in Ireland and will also begin to extract the CMB information that has now come online. Eventually I plan to produce a gedcom which I will put up on WorldConnect.

Cornwall Blake Family
The work on the Cornwall Blake family continues and I am working on the parishes that are 25 miles from Bodmin. When these are complete there will just be a couple of dozen parishes left in Cornwall with Blake records. I am about one third of the way through those parishes. I am able to see Blake families for a number of generations emerging as I extract the material. I want to do the census for all Blakes in Cornwall and work that into the parish registers before I actually publish any of the information so suspect it will be the end of the year or into next year before that happens.
 
Blake yDNA Study
There are 94 members although only 52 members have yDNA results for the Blake yDNA study at FT DNA. Other members have joined with their Family Finder results and some of these members do have matches in Family Finder. This is a way in which women with the Blake surname can participate in the study if they are unable to find a Blake in their line to test. Most members of the study trace their Blake ancestry back to the British Isles but there are three members who trace their lines back to Germany. More members in the study are most welcome and absolutely essential to learn more about the founding lines of the Blake family

Elizabeth Kipp, kippeeb@rogers.com
Please send any submissions for the Blake Newsletter to this address.

R1b study for Black and Blake families

The R1b groupings in both Blake and Black studies are numerous and will take more time to analyze.

The Group that is labeled H Irish Ancestry in the Blake yDNA study (said to include Blakes who descend from Sir Thomas Blake b c 1183) is very similar to the group in the Black study (which includes a Blake member) bearing label Lineage V. They are related in a genealogical time frame.

The group that is labeled I Irish Ancestry (Supplementary) in the Blake yDNA study does not have any similarities in the Black study that would be related within a genealogical time frame and probably longer.

The group that is labeled F2 English East Anglia (Suffolk) in the Blake yDNA study does not have any similarities in the Black study that would be related within a genealogical time frame and probably longer.

 The group that is labeled E1 English Ancestry (4) in the Blake yDNA study does have one interesting match but it is only 30/37 so not considered significant for genealogical purposes especially as the surnames do not match.

With K German Ancestry the members have a slight match with this same Blake yDNA grouping but again not within a genealogical framework.


The possibilities for D English Ancestry (3) in the Blake yDNA are three in number but 30/37 so not a match within a genealogical framework with the Black grouping.

The last group is G Irish Ancestry (Galway-Towerhill, Kiltolla) in the Blake yDNA and comparing it with the Black yDNA study. There is one entry that is 31/37 and his surname is Rankin. I have discarded this as a non match.

Just one group appears to match one of the Black groups and that is Lineage V in the Black study and H Irish Ancestry (possible descendants of Sir Thomas Blake) in the Blake yDNA study. Sir Thomas Blake was said to be born circa 1183 and the son of Richard Caddell alias Blake. I have not done very much on the Irish Blake family so simply present this chart as it was prepared by Barrie Blake in terms of the Irish Research. I do hope to revise all the headings for the Blake yDNA study as time passes.

FT DNA Sale and continuing Routledge

There is a sale at FT DNA on the 37 marker yDNA test.

https://www.familytreedna.com/login.aspx

It is listed in the pink navigation bar across the site just down from the top of the page.

or the Blake yDNA project page:

https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Blake

I will have more to say on the new y haplotree later.

I am still working away on the Routledge documents for my cousin. There are about 30 to do mostly just 30 lines per document but they are from the latter part of the 1500s so a little challenge there! I should begin posting wills again on Wednesday the 30th of April.

These documents I am working on have occasional references to the Routledge family of Bewcastle and of course my interest in this family is doubled and mostly doubled in each generation back from that. Two of my three x great grandparents were surnamed Routledge - Thomas Routledge and Elizabeth Routledge of Bewcastle married at Bewcastle in 1785 and their parents were Henry Routledge (and Margaret Tweddle) and George Routledge and Grace Routledge (Thomas and Elizabeth respectively). The tendency to marry Routledge continues back in time and of 16  great great grandparents for my great great grandmother Mary Routledge daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth Routledge 13 are surname Routledge. Thus far they represent the Oakshaw, Hill, Parke, Broderigg and a couple of other locations family. However most are from the Oakshaw Routledge line.