Andover Parish Registers - 24 Sep 2010

Continuing on today with the Andover Parish Registers. I would like to complete to the end of Parish Register 3 over the next couple of weeks. We will see how that goes. This is an interesting time period in British History as it is partially during the period of the Commonwealth. The priest is no longer recording in the register but rather it is an appointed Registrar although could be the priest as I still haven't been able to read the signature of the person who entered the comment into the register that he would now be assuming the office of Registrar and recording in the Register. I am at 1657 now and Restoration of Charles II as monarch was in 1660. The pages are headed up Bearths at the moment with no Baptisms listed. That will change again with the Restoration of the Monarchy and the Church of England as Registrar of BMBs.

Going over Dorothy Blake's will yesterday was an interesting sojourn back in time. Dorothy has been widowed five years when the will is written. The legacies from her husband's will have not yet been paid it would appear as she mentions that her children must sign off of these legacies in order to inherit under her will. The legacies are smaller under her will. Times must have been hard for this Blake family. I need to go and redo my will for William Blake which was dated 25 Apr 1641 with a codicil dated 8 Nov 1641 and he was buried 4 May 1642. At that time William, his second eldest son is working in Warwickshire as a teacher; he must not have felt his place was as a priest in the parish at Oxford. By 1644 he has returned to Andover and he marries Ann Hellier. The registers at this point are starting to be less well kept and I think that he registers the baptisms of their three children himself in the register - there are very few for each year and the handwriting is different for each entry. But is this my ancestor? Of that I am not entirely convinced although it would seem logical that he is. I need to find more proof to connect Thomas to John (by baptism Thomas' father is John but I am looking for a specific John; John the son of William Blake Clerk). From William back to Nicholas is all by will and from Thomas forward to my father is quite straightforward.

I completed a redo of William's will from 1641 and the changes did not add anything to the will that I did not already know. It is cleaner though - I have improved at transcribing in the last three years. I opted not to do my CG examination right away after completing my PLCGS because I did not feel I had enough experience to be a CG. At that time I was still considering working but now I am firmly retired but it would be nice to do the CG now if only to show how much I have improved in seven years of taking courses and doing my own family history. I am starting to write more and having the CG at least lets people see I have completed the necessary training to do Genealogy in a rigorous fashion. Although I think that 30 years experience certainly has a strong play in that as well. I can feel the lack of experience when I come across something difficult. Usually I can work my way through it but it doesn't come easily to me.

Definitely this is a family in the decline of their fortunes which fits in well with what I know of the Blake family from my grandfather. This is just one line but it is the line that remained at Andover and did not move on to Surrey or London.

Richard's children did not call in the mortgage on the property of Eastontown from Thomas but William is now asking that that be done in his will. I gather from Dorothy's will that this was not a successful endeavour. Possibly no one wanted to purchase the property and Thomas Blake (married to Eleanor Hall) simply let it go into decline since he wasn't living there anymore anyway. He was in London and that was where he and Eleanor were buried. Bad luck for William's family as they appear to have had a large sum of money tied up in Eastontown. My grandfather described it as a pile of rubble when he was a child and wondered why his father was so proud to think of his Blake family who lived at Old Hall. All a matter of perspective I suspect for he seemed to me to be proud of his Blake family of Andoverbut wasn't so attached to the story of living at Old Hall. Time does change one's perspective as I rather think I have inherited the Blake family pride in this regard; proud of this family that remembered its ancestory and treasured it like gold. As far as I can tell they always made their own way in the world and owned no one anything. If they didn't have their great mansions and enormous land holdings they still had their pride as Englishmen in a land they loved.

I remember when I was young I used to tell Grandpa that I would go to England with him and I think if he had been younger and healthier he would have taken me. He did want to return but by the time the Second World War was over he was 70 years old and he had lost that drive that would have taken him there. I used to tell my grandmother that as well as she wanted to see England one more time - I think age must do it - but we never did go and I married young at 20 so the opportunity passed and it didn't happen.

When we went to England in the spring of 2008 and we were at Upper Clatford I whispered to the trees in the graveyard at All Saints that I was bringing back the memory of Samuel Blake since he couldn't do it himself. In Bishops Nympton I touched the trees that line the walk (now topped from their massive height of earlier years) and left my memories with them of a family that had been at Bishops Nympton from the late 1500s until they came to Canada in 1851. At East Buckland where my ancient Pincombe was baptized in the late 1400s, I wondered if I could feel the spirit of my ancestors saying hello to me from far back in time - it felt so warm and friendly there. The churchyard so very ancient, the yard has grown up around the church it has been there so long but inside the Church was like a new building with a new rug on the floor and everything polished and shining. It is the centre of the community of East Buckland that Church. It was wonderful to be there and I relish the memory of that visit. We came back through Filleigh down the road that they must have traveled from their farm to the Church Sunday after Sunday. The hedgerows were at least fourteen feet high leading us to the Church and away from it.

65 years old today

Today I reached that new milestone of 65 years. I am excited to be 65 actually but just the idea of reaching 65. I know that the average life span is much longer now but I was ill a long time in my late 20s early 30s so that every day has been a blessing to me through the years and now to be 65 looking back at those years of illness seems like such a long time ago.

Today I continued transcribing the Andover Parish Registers and also went back and did a rerun through Dorothy Blake's will looking for grandchildren. She mentions many but not those of her son William Blake Clerk. the last codicil to her will is dated 3 January 1647 and the will itself was dated 13 October 1647. The three children baptized that I suspect are her grandchildren were:

William 9 August 1647
Bridgatt September 1649 (born 1648)
John 10 May 1649.

The younger two definitely would not appear on the will but why not William? I have to wonder about that actually. I haven't done the burials yet and he could have died young which would account for his not being listed. Dorothy doesn't mention daughters in law for any of her sons except Richard the eldest who married Joane Dashwood. She did not mention her by name but left money to buy her a mourning ring. She does appear to mention all of her grandchildren.

I know that in 1645 Gravelacre (Gallacre) has been sold to Nicholas Blake by her son William Blake. That was part of his inheritance and apparently where he lived. I think he was then at Penton where the children were baptized. Possibly she did not know that there was a new grandson baptized 9 August 1647. If indeed these are the children of William Blake and Ann Hellier. The other if, is this John married to Elizabeth who was the father of Thomas baptized 21 Feb 1685 at Andover and undoubtably my ancestor.

I only really have the family lore back to Nicholas at Old House although I have transcribed all the wills but the weak link continues to be Thomas to John to William; principally John to William.

Routledge and Moresby

A query on the Cumberland Rootsweb mailing list on Richard Routledge (bc 1792) Moresby Cumberland has been raised. Who was this Richard Routledge known to be born at Moresby Cumberland in 1793? Unfortunately I couldn't help as my Routledge family were always at Bewcastle back into at least the 1500s (from my "cousin" Thomas) and known to be there by me from at least the late 1600s to 1818.

Two of my 3x great grandparents were Routledge. Thomas Routledge (born at
Broderigg, baptized 25 Jul 1763 at Bewcastle) and Elizabeth Routledge (born at
Raw, baptized 27 Aug 1763 at Bewcastle) were married 23 Jun 1785 at Bewcastle.
They had ten children born at Parkhead and all baptized at Bewcastle (Margaret
1786, Henry 1787, Grace 1789, George 1792, William 1795, Thomas 1798, Allan
1804, Elizabeth Mary Ann (1804 - my ancestor), Joseph (1808) and John (1808) -
two sets of twins).

The parents of Thomas Routledge were Henry Routledge (born at Oakshaw, baptized
30 Jul 1720 at Bewcastle) and Margaret Tweddle (baptized 6 Mar 1728 Lanercost).
Henry's parents were William Routledge and Grissell Routledge (married 1704 at
Bewcastle, William's second marriage) and his siblings Mary 1709, Thomas (1712
married to Elizabeth Storey), Margrat 1714, Dorothy 1716 (died young), William
(1726, 1727 and both died young). William's first marriage with children Sybella
1692, Edward 1697, William 1702, Thomas 1703. Grissell's parents are unknown.

The parents of Elizabeth Routledge were George Routledge (born at Todhills,
baptized 17 Apr 1729 at Bewcastle) and Grace Routledge. George's father was also
George (b 1692 Stubb) and his siblings were Isobel 1715, Jane 1720 (died young),
George (1726 died young), Jane 1732. Grace's parents were Thomas Routledge of
Hill Bewcastle and Mary Routledge of Kirkbeckstown and siblings Adam, Henry,
John 1735 and Mary.

All of the children (with the exception of John who died as an infant) of Thomas and Elizabeth emigrated with them to Canada in 1818. Only one of their sons (George) married and had children so that all of the surname Routledge families descended from Thomas and Elizabeth also are descended from George their son. He had a large family (9 children) - Elizabeth bc 1822, Robert bc 1824, Thomas b 19 Apr 1826, Henry bc 1828, John b 15 Aug 1830, Allen b 30 Dec 1832, George bc 1838, William bc 1840, and Jane bc 1843.

Unfortunately, I was unable to assist the researcher on her Moresby family but did post the following information along with the above.

1641 Protestation Returns
Routledge Adam son of Rowland, wife Gracie of the Nook
Routledge Bartholomew
Routledge Christopher
Routledge Edward Nephew William of Todholes (mother is
Elizabeth-William's sister)
Routledge Edward Of Ash
Routledge Edward
Routledge Francis son of James and Elener of the Ash
Routledge George son of James and Elener of the Ash
Routledge George
Routledge Gilbert
Routledge James son of James, wife Janet of Baileyhead
Routledge Michael
Routledge Nicholas
Routledge Quinton
Routledge Richard son of James, wife Janet of Baileyhead
Routledge Rowland son of James, wife Janet of Baileyhead
Routledge Thomas son of James, wife Janet of Baileyhead
Routledge Thomas son of Rowland, wife Gracie of the Nook
Routledge Thomas son of John of Black dubs
Routledge Thomas
Routledge William
Routledge William
Routledge William

1630 Indenture Bewcastle (from Bobbie Jo Hooser)
Robert Routledge, of Cum Crooke
Allan Routledge, of Cum Crooke
Thomas Routledge, of the Kilne
Allan Routledge for a Tenement, without a house at Saughs, rent 3s 4d, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Kirkbeck, rent 10s, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Camellflat, rent 6s 8d, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
William Routledge for a Messuage and tenement at Nunsclough, rent 13d, a day
mowing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Alexander Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Nunsclough, rent 6d, a day
shearing.
Christopher Routledge, in right of his wife Margaret, for a Messuage and
Tenement at Bellbank, rent 2s 4d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as
aforesaid.
George Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Bellbank, rent 1s 8d, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
John Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Daplymoor, rent 12 d, a day
shearing.
William Routledge and Elizabeth his sister, for a Messuage and Tenement at
Daplymoor, rent 12 d, a day shearing.
Robert Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Cumcrook, rent 2s 8d, a horse as
aforesaid.
Robert Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinker-hill, rent 5s, a horse as
aforesaid.
Thomas Routledge, son of George for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinkerhill, rent
20d, a day mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Kinkerhill, rent 2s, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and for Carriages 2s.
Richard Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 7d, a day mowing,
a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Rowland Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 7d, a day mowing,
a day shearing, a horse as aforesaid.
Edward Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 2s 1d, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Cuthbert Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Oakshaw, rent 2s 8d, a day
mowing, a day shearing, and a horse as aforesaid.
Thomas Routledge for a Messuage and Tenement at Durtup, rent 10d, the Charges of
half a horse as aforesaid.


1604 Land Survey of Bewcastle (from Bobbie Jo Hooser)
District Farm Tenant (S/F) Title (S/F) Relationship Title to Tenant
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Adam Routledge, Adam Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, John Routledge, Allen Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, John Routledge, Andrew Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Thomas Routledge, Andrew Father
Bayley Blackdubs Routledge, Archibald Routledge, Andrew Father
Bayley Sleetbeck Routledge, James Routledge, Andrew Father
Bayley Stone Knowe Routledge, Adam Routledge, Andrew Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, William Routledge, Archibald Father
Bayley Ashes Routledge, James Routledge, George Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Jerrat Routledge, George Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Quintain Routledge, George Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Adam Routledge, James Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, James Routledge, James Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Thomas Routledge, James Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, William Routledge, James Father
Bayley Crokeborne Routledge, Thomas Routledge, Jarret Father
Bayley Blackdubs Routledge, Thomas Routledge, Jeffery Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Richard Routledge, Jeffery Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Richard Routledge, Jeffery Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, John Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Jerrat Routledge, John Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Thomas Routledge, John Father
Bayley Blackdubs Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, John Father
Bayley Blackdubs Routledge, Thomas Routledge, John Father
Bayley Sleetbeck Routledge, William Routledge, John Father
Bayley Trough Routledge, George Routledge, John Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Clement Routledge, John Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, George Routledge, John Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Quint Routledge, John Father
Bayley Todholes Routledge, James Routledge, Martin Father
Bayley Blackdubs Routledge, Edward Routledge, Nicholas Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Simon Routledge, Quintaine Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Andrew Routledge, Quintin Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Simon Routledge, Quintin Father
Bayley Bournfoot Routledge, Francis Routledge, Quintin Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Andrew Routledge, Quintin Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, John Routledge, Quintin Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Jenkin Routledge, Richard Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Gerege Routledge, Richard Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, John Routledge, Richard Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Jock Routledge, Robert Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Anthony Routledge, Rowland Father
Bayley Bournfoot Routledge, Edward Routledge, Rowland Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Cuthbert Routledge, Rowland Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Richard Routledge, Thomas Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, William Routledge, Thomas Father
Crewe Border Rig Routledge, William Routledge, Thomas Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, Richard Routledge, Thomas Father
The Quarter The Quarter Routledge, William Routledge, Thomas Father
Bayley Bayley Routledge, Edward Routledge, William Father
Bayley Trough Routledge, Alexander Routledge, William Father
Bayley Trough Routledge, John Routledge, William Father

I will continue adding references to my Blake paper today. I should be ready to send another draft to my co-authors later today. I would like to submit it by the end of the week. It turned out to be fairly easy to pull it together from our first author's website, then my notes and the work done by the two co-authors in setting up the Blake YDNA website at FT DNA. The question is whether to add other Blake yDNA information held by other companies and accessible. I did use the Sorenson data in my presentation so may look at that but I do not know as much about the data however.

Blogging Paper and DNA Paper

Life seems very busy at the moment. I did complete the paper on Blogging (just three pages) for my husband's Ottawa Genealogist (journal of the Ottawa Branch of the OGS). It actually turned out to be quite interesting (at least I think so :) ). Initially I was trying to decide how to write and what about but once I started it seemed to just flow from the reason that I created this blog originally. I had 2500 images from Salt Lake City and I needed to think each lot through that I had taken and use the evidence thereby gained and formulate genealogical text to make use of the data. It was actually just for myself but along the way other people read my blogs and sent me ideas and suggestions that have been amazing actually. The best one was from the researcher of the Question family. I would simply not have readily found the will of Augustine Question and associated it with Elizabeth Siderfin wife of Robert Siderfin (my 6x great grandparents). There was absolutely nothing in the material I found for my Siderfin that pointed to Elizabeth Question as the wife of Robert Siderfin and indeed James Hooper Sanders in his book on the Siderfin Family of West Somerset clearly marked Elizabeth Blackford as the wife of Robert Siderfin. I think that that find was a turning point with regard to the book. This was a definite error with proof at hand and now I look carefully at each comment in the book to determine its authenticity. However, he did compile a vast amount of information and explain where it was located which is great and he is to be forever commended for that excellent accumulation of data.

The DNA Paper amazingly went together right after that and I had twelve pages before I knew it. I need to add more references but I have already heard back from Barrie Blake with his comments which strengthened the paper. I will go in now and add the references. Pulling them out is time consuming and I wanted the other two authors to see the draft as soon as possible. The Blake yDNA study is a very exciting one actually. With just 27 results Barrie and Bill have been able to formulate a number of conclusions which will aid Blake researchers all over the world. I am really glad that they are willing to have it published. As the least important of the authors, I am proud to be able to present their work and be associated with it.

I spent part of the early morning working on Henry Beard's will. I transcribed it about a year and a half ago but my talent (such as it is :) ) at transcribing has improved again over that time period and a relook revealed a few mis transcriptions on my part but no new information. I am basically brickwalled with the Buller/Beard/Hemsley families in Bermondsey. Were they always there i.e. had they been there for a couple of hundred years or were they recently there coming from say the southwest counties or the midlands? These two places have the surnames fairly commonly - as commonly as Buller and Hemsley appear with Beard being a commoner name in the British Isles.

Now for some housework and then I shall reference the paper. I am sure that Chris will be glad to have it as early as I can submit it. I might remake one of the figures as the title is a bit large. Over all the figures that I have created do not look too bad. I also have two tables that have proven to be quite interesting as I read back through the paper.

Blake paper

I am changing direction in mid stream as of last evening. I am writing a paper on the Blake yDNA study. I was able to contact the two people for the Blake yDNA study at FT DNA since they are investigator and co-investigator and will name Barrie Blake (co-investigator) as the first author, myself as second and Bill Bleak as third. Since the data belongs to them I must sit second on the paper in all fairness. A lot of the writing up is Barrie's work. I have given myself five days to put the ten to twelve pages of double spaced text together and have two already. There will be four figures I think which will take up some of the text space.

I did a little more entry on Andover Parish Registers and I think that is the way that it will go; a little at a time. As I move forward in time the register becomes almost perfect in terms of readability and I can look forward to that. I prefer to work forwards so that the most difficult part is done first.

Our T study paper is now submitted to JOGG so just have to wait to hear back on that. It is a very good paper, David Pike did a wonderful job of writing up the results. I need to revise the T2 webpage to reflect this submission. Many of the members of my group are in the T FGS study but not all by any means - I now have 355 members in the group. Once the paper is accepted then I can get started rearranging the 355 members of my group into their respective subclades. Then we will be able to see if we have any geographic significance for any of the subclades. Even with over 400 samples it is very difficult to make strong statements about geographic origins but with 355 T2 it may happen. We shall see on that.

I promised my husband a blogging article for the Ottawa Genealogist (the journal for the OGS branch here that he publishes). That will be my first priority today to accomplish that item.

Research Trip

We are just back from an interesting family reunion (Schultz) and a Research Trip. My blog has been intermittent this past year. I have just been so busy that I haven't had time to write to it daily. I must make that my New Year's Resolution in 2011 to write to it daily once again.

My husband had found his Abbs line (great great grandmother married to John Link) at Queensville and we traveled to Queensville after the Schultz Reunion to have a look at the burial stone for Martha (Chapman) Abbs who was buried at Queensville in 1852. Her husband William is mentioned on the stone but he is not buried there apparently. Beside Martha's stone is the stone for her daughter in Law who had died in 1851 during childbirth. They were the only Abbs stones in the cemetery. This is a very old cemetery (by Canadian standards) and has been reset with all the stones lying on the ground. The ground is slightly raised with one stone on each side of the raised portion. There are eight rows of stones and enclosed within a cement footing that runs entirely around the graveyard. This is the original graveyard but it would appear that the stones have been centralized. Only two are still standing upright - two large stones. There is a plaque there to commemorate the "Selby Burying Ground."

We also saw the Sharon Temple of God which is a very large building - all glass windows at first sight and set back slightly from the road. They were repairing it at the moment and it was closed for the season. The Abbs family were Church of England. We then drove on to Baysville up in the Muskokas to see the graveyard where James C Allen was buried in 1898. He was the father of my husband's maternal grandmother. His grave marker had been a wooden cross long since gone but on the cross had been a marker with his name. There were about 30 of these markers that had been placed in a glass case in the middle of the graveyard and my husband was able to take a picture of the one for him and for his son Joseph Allen. All in all a very successful research trip - we found everything we were looking for and had an idea of the location of the farms for these families. This was a short stopping stop for the Allen family as they moved on to Saskatchewan and some further to Alberta where they homesteaded. My husband's mother was born at Carievale Saskatchewan.

The next day we went to the Archives of Ontario in Toronto for a five hour marathon of searching. I was intent on finding the original entry for a marriage in our son in law's family and my husband had other pursuits which he will write up in his Kipp blog. I also wanted to look at three books which had been written about the areas where our son in law's families had lived. I was successful on all counts including making copies of one small book printed in the late 1800s. It will make an interesting read later as it is all in French and discusses Sturgeon Falls.

Now I am back to transcribing Andover Parish Registers and working on 1643. I plan to work away at this register fairly constantly over this next winter. It will be a project of several years duration but will let me separate out all of my family lines there along with the registers for Abbotts Ann, Upper Clatford, etc. in that area. Once completed I shall take all the files and make one large file for sorting (of course keeping the original transcription file for each parish separate as well) and then I can easily put together the various family lines. Just sitting and reading the registers doesn't do that for me. I need a transcription of them as I can miss then as I am reading along.

Blake Wills

I decided over the past couple of days to review my transcriptions for my Blake wills in the 1500s since I transcribed them several years ago when I was just beginning my journey in genealogy it seemed prudent to review them. Surprisingly I did quite well back then but did do a lot of cleaning up of the wills.

I wanted to see if William who died in 1582 at Knights Enham had given any hints in his will about cousins. He did not. He mentioned his brother Edmund and sisters Elizabeth and Alice. Elizabeth had married Monday and Alice was married to Godwyn. Edmund's family is mentioned and he had a son Steven about whom nothing further is known. William's father was Nicholas as Nicholas mentioned in his will his sons William and Edmund and daughters Ann Godwyn and Elizabeth unmarried. On glancing at his will I think I need to read that one through as well. I did William his son and William's son William's will these past two days. Both are quite lengthy with William (father) having a seven page will.

Reading through Nicholas' will and moving it to my next style for transcription revealed to me that between 1547 and 1582 Steven son of Edmund had died as the property which had been willed to Edmund by his father was now in William's will of 1582. It would appear to be the only way to understand why Edmund's property is now willed to William's children.

Nicholas' will added a few new thoughts as well. Nicholas mentions the children of William which means that at least two of his children were born by 1547 which works well with my thinking in regard to the two oldest John and William. This William's will (grandson of Nicholas) of 1607 details the same property that had been passed by Nicholas to his father William. William mentions his friend Richard Blake and this is the mystery actually. Who is this Richard Blake? If he was the youngest brother of his father then he would refer to him as uncle. The age though would be interesting as his father was likely born in the 1540s whereas his youngest brother was not likely born until the late 1550s which would make him a contemporary with the children of William. It is a mystery although I still have these two William Blake families living close together - one at Eastontown and the other at Knights Enham.

Finding the Wiltshire chart which lists William Blake (died 1582) as married to Avice Ripley does raise the question of William being married twice but the time span does not appear to work for that plus we have the chart with John Blake as the eldest son of William and Avice Blake and his wife Margaret Blake listed as the daughter of William Blake aforesaid which could only be William and Avice Blake looking at the Chart.

By other records this John is the son of William and Elizabeth Blake and he married Margaret Blake.

Checking the tax records in this time period (1571) there are three William Blakes - one at Knights Enham, one at Lockerley and one at Andover. Lockerley is close to East Dean and West Dean which is quite interesting as there is a Nicholas Blake at East Dean/West Dean.

Nicholas Blake (d 1547) had a brother Robert (d 1542) who had a large family. He was married to Agnes with six sons: Robert, John the Elder, William, Thomas, Richard and John the Younger. These men can all be found on the tax rolls at Penton Mewsey, West Tytherley, and Knights Enham in 1571.

By 1594 there is a John Blake at Knights Enham, John Blake at Fifield, Peter Blake at Andover, Richard Blake at West Tytherley, Richard Blake at Andover.

By 1598 there is a John Blake sen and John Blake jun at Penton Mewsey, John Blake at Enham, Peter Blake at Andover, Richard Blake at Andover, Robert Blake at Kings Enham, William Blake at Kings Enham and a widow Blake at Tytherley.

The 1665 tax rolls continue to show Blake families at Lockerley, Tytherley, Abbots Ann, East Aston, Kings Enham, Andover, Penton Mewsey, Foscott, Wherwell and a few others.

The earliest tax rolls should be the most useful before the large families of Robert and then his nephew William dominate the tax rolls. At Quarley there is a mysterious Gilbert Blak that I can not fit into this Blake family. Quarley is just about three miles west of Andover south of the present A303. The Blake and the Gilbert families intermarried in the 1500s and later in the 1700s with a Gilbert descendant marrying Charles Blake at Abbotts Ann. The line of that Charles is not precisely known.

Throw into that mix another Robert Blake line at West Enham and he married Maude Snell and their three sons were: William Blake, Richard Blake and Thomas Blake. I believe that the wills for these four men are all at the Winchester Record Office and eventually I shall read them. He is living at the same time as Nicholas' brother Robert but they are two separate people.

A really neat way to separate all of these lines may be yDNA. With enough people testing we might be able to determine if they are all descendants of the Wiltshire Blake family or are they from the Norfolk Blake line? The Norfolk Blake line is now well established by yDNA studies

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/blake/default.aspx?section=yresults

With several people now working on the Blake line independently perhaps we may yet solve the ancestry of these many lines.

Blake

The Blake family (my maiden name) continues to attract my genealogical research. I mentioned the Wiltshire chart that I purchased and I have done some more research and thinking about it and derived the following argument with regard to it.

The marriage of William Blake and Avice Ripley is placed in the Roger Blake/Mary Barnard family in this chart. I have now added William as a son to the Roger Blake/Mary Barnard family in my charting although he is not mentioned in the Visitation but is on the chart (the will of Roger Blake does not list all of his sons only his eldest Roger). I will try to find more evidence for the names of Roger's sons when we are at Kew and reading all those wills. No Ripley wills on line at Kew in this time period that would be of an assistance. Then having the line go down from William Blake and Avice Ripley to Margaret Blake marrying John Blake of Andover works with the existing will information and Visitations. However the line actually goes from William Blake/Avice Ripley to John Blake on the Wiltshire charty .

The Wiltshire chart uses the visitation of the Blake family in Surrey. They begin with John (rather than going back to the earlier Visitations of their family in Hampshire which shows John as the son of William Blake at Eastontowne. Did they do that because there was some doubt as to their direct line back? The Hampshire Visitation is not my William Blake as the children listed on the Hampshire Visitation are not as per the will that I have for William Blake (hence my first thought that there were two William Blakes at Eastontowne). Although he could have married twice he doesn't mention that in his will and he is known to be the son of Nicholas Blake not Roger Blake.

Two William Blakes is possibly the source of the error on the Wiltshire Chart. William Blake as the father of John wasn't repeated on the Visitation in Surrey but the family crest included the Baynard coat of arms which isn't in my line at Andover and is probably the line for Margaret Blake married to John Blake. The probable error was then carried onto the large chart although with some confusion because Margaret is named as the daughter of William in the chart as well as having the line from this same family go down to her husband John Blake!

The Surrey Blake family by not including William as the father of John were perhaps trying to eliminate that confusion of which William Blake. Possibly that is why they had the College of Arms create this massive chart for them looking for their ancestral line. The coat of arms in the Surrey visitation is said to be incomplete but the fourth lower right quarter is the chevron of the Baynard family (I think they have fleur de lis in the chevron but do not know positively.) I wonder if the order has any meaning in heraldry as they are numbered in order with Blake first then Dorrant then Billet and then Baynard which does logically follow the actual line of descent.

Although this family knew their founding families in the crest they must not have remembered Margaret Blake as the daughter of William Blake and Avice Ripley (although the chart does mention that she was the daughter of William Blake aforesaid and he is the only one that that could apply to!). The circle around Margaret's name includes the comment: daughter of William Blake aforesaid; the circle around John's name simply states that he is from Eastontown Andover and eldest son. Indeed he is the eldest son of William and Elizabeth Blake of Eastontown according to that William's will. I think that the line was simply drawn in the wrong place between the two generations (in both the Visitation of Hampshire and the Wiltshire Chart). Margaret, I believe, is the daughter of William Blake and Avice Ripley with John being her husband and the son of William and Elizabeth Blake all of Eastontown. The Hampshire Visitation does not state the name of the wife of William but the children are likely those of William Blake and Avis Ripley. Finding the will of this William may help to solve this mystery.

Perhaps now is the time to transcribe my Wiltshire Blake wills from the 1500s. I put them aside (and they have just popped back into my memory!) because I did not see any "real" connection between the Blake family of Andover and that of Calne until I found the Surrey Visitation last winter.

It will be interesting to see if I am correct. The Margaret Blake/John Blake line has their eldest son Thomas Blake married to Eleanor Hall and they are one set of the 12x great grandparents of Diana, Princess of Wales.