Farmer and Lambden

I was amazed to discover that I have completed Parish Register 6 in an amazingly short period of time. Although this is a really busy season, the time just seemed to be there for me to sit and transcribe a couple of hours here and there. The reading is fairly straightforward (still 17th century writing but the pages are in good shape). I completed the baptisms and marriages up to mid year 1714 (same as the burials from Parish Register 4). There are now 2112 marriages up to September 1714 in St Marys Parish at Andover. Although I have all of this material transcribed it still needs to be proofread which will be a rather time consuming process which I will get at hopefully sooner rather than later so that I can put it up online on the OPC Hampshire website.

When I do Penton Mewsey I will proofread it right away so that I can submit it but it will be considerably shorter and hence easier to proofread - there are fewer names to stumble over! As soon as I complete Parish Register 7 I will move to Penton Mewsey as I am now very keen to read that entire register.

Have I learned very many new items with this last register. There were a lot of Blake names in the register although principally female but it will be good to place them in the correct family name. It also helps me later when I suddenly have a marriage with the female line back into the Blake line which I suspect that the Farmer family may be one of those.

The Lambden family has appeared and they were transcribed on the LDS website as Camden. Easily done I am most sure but it was very heartening to see that family at Woodhouse which is where my 2x great grandmother Anne Farmer was baptized. I also had a surprise with Stock being a place name at St Mary Bourne. Henry Lambden of Stock married Mary Beckly of St Mary Bourn at Andover.

Another New Year's Eve and we have been married for 44 and a half years (almost). Most of our New Year's Eves we have spent at home either by ourselves or with children. Traditionally, we went "home" for New Years either to my parents or Ed's mother's house. But we stopped doing that about twenty years ago now and have always stayed here. Back there is eight hours through some of the worst traffic in Canada (the 401 through Toronto) and it was always an arduous trip which we didn't mind not doing. I think our children know that highway absolutely off by heart - they know when everything is coming where everything is all along the way. They have driven that particular highway so many times in their life.

My next project is to acquire images of our son-in-law's great grandparents and great great grandparents if that is possible. We purchased this wonderful chart and we are only missing his lines before his paternal grandparents, one of my husband's great-grandparents, and four of my great grandparents. I will not likely ever find any of the four although I have a picture of my mother's aunt who apparently looked very like her mother. My maternal grandmother's parents are very unlikely in terms of my finding a picture of them although I know that they looked very like my great uncle and my maternal grandmother. The fourth one there is always a possibility as he lived until 1913 but it would be pure luck!

My new picture frame is certainly proving to be very interesting. Although I could set up seven or eight pictures to look at at a time, that would mean that I wasn't doing any work. This way the pictures just flow past me and I glance over. The odds are in favour that I will recognize some of these images because I knew them as a child but it will take time for me to do that.

Family Finder

I tested my Family Finder category at FT DNA about six months ago and discovered they have added a new category "Population Finder." This is a continental percentage listing and they look at the seven continental groupings:

Africa

America

East Asia

Europe

Middle Eastern

Oceania

South Asia

Each of these categories are further subdivided into region and then into representative populations. Given the out of Africa theory I expected to find in my test Middle East and Africa since that is the path that my ancestral line shows in my original testing in the Genographic Project. However, my results showed:

Continent Percentage Margin of Error
Europe (Western European) 82.50% ±11.05%
Europe 17.50% ±11.05%

Reading through the text my margin of error is high because there is overlap between Western European and European but where are my deep ancestral results? That was my first thought. The category of Europe (Western European) shows region and representative population:

Europe
Northeast European (Finnish, Russian)
Caucasus (Adygei)
Southeast European (Romanian)
Southern European (Italian, Sardinian, Tuscan)
Western European (Basque, French, Orcadian, Spanish)

Since I test 82.5% Western European that gives me the representative populations of Basque, French, Orcadian and Spanish) for 82.5% of my ancestry with the remaining 17.5% from the five regions and since the error is large that would mean a portion from Western European included in the Europe classification.

I have only known British ancestry as far back as I can trace with my ancestors being born in the counties known as England back into the 1700s and much earlier for some (1400s). These counties include a fair cross section of England: Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Wiltshire and Hampshire being one rather large geographic area and then London including Surrey, up then to the Midlands and including Birmingham, Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Staffordshire, Shropshire, over to Yorkshire (east) and then the last group from Cumberland (Bewcastle/Lanercost area). My mtDNA pinpoints to Argyll Scotland as the likely resting spot for my mutations but also County Antrim Ireland. Our yDNA shows us to be a small group I2a2b localized in the Wiltshire/Hampshire area and the suggested time frame is 8000 to 10000 years in this area (arriving as the ice sheets departed!). However, Family Finder looks at the autosomal not mtDNA or yDNA and this is, of course, the accumulated genetic story passed down to you by your parents/grandparents/great grandparents etc. Since mine are all English as far back as I can trace the results are not particularly surprising except I wonder where are my really deep ancestral rooots out of Africa and the Middle East? Is the more recent discussion on the Neanderthals in Europe also my story? Always something new and fascinating coming out of the DNA testing.

I want to test my brother next to see the story that his results will tell for Family Finder. I was beginning to wonder if my maternal great grandmother was Romano but it would appear that that is not the case since there isn't any southern European ancestry. Also the case with my paternal grandmother's line in the Enford Downs area. They would also appear to be very old English. Since the X chromosome which I received from my father would be his mother's X chromosome given that he received a Y chromosome from his father, in the combining I should have a strong showing of her genetic history.

Continuing on with the Andover Parish Registers and I am on the second fiche of Parish Register 6. There are only 38 pages on the second fiche and the first 17 pages are baptisms. I have now reached 8288 baptisms as of April 1712. The baptisms end early in 1714 and I have 11 more pages to transcribe of baptisms before I begin the marriages from 1700 to 1714. Then I want to transcribe Parish Register 7 which brings me up to the mid 1740s where I wanted to be before starting to transcribe the wills from Kew.

There is now a Farmer family at Andover which is most interesting. Isaac Farmer married Elizabeth Lambden at Andover 6 Aug 1789 and I do not have his parents for sure. It could be that he was baptized at Collingbourne Kingston and the son of John Farmer but it would be nice if more solid proof appears. The priest records that Isaac is of the parish in the marriage lines at Andover. Isaac Farmer signed the register with a very neat hand and on his burial he is listed as 44 years of age 18 Mar 1808 which would see him born around 1764 and the baptism of an Isaac Farmer 6 May 1764 at Collingbourne Kingston is certainly very interesting.

I am also hoping that the Lambden family at Andover will also appear in the next 40 years as I have Henry Lambden of Stock marrying Mary Beckly of St Mary Bourne at Andover 3 May 1698. Stock could be Stoke Charity which is 4 miles south east of Barton Stacey and 5 miles south east of Longparish. Both of these parishes are close enough to Andover that marriages are common from these parishes at Andover. St Mary Bourne is also found in the marriages at Andover.

Bédard Family, Andover Parish Registers and my new digital frame

I decided to check the hints on Ancestry for the Bédard family. There were two new ones in particular for Charles Alexandre Bédard and his wife Emelie Whelan and for the Whelan line. I wrote to both of the owners of public trees to see if I could obtain any new information. As well, Ancestry search engine has found the 1891 Census for the Charles Bédard family in Ottawa (Valmore is ten years old on this census) which was a good find. Transcribed as Bidard but obvious for the actual family. I must get back to more French Canadian research once again. All of our traveling has distracted me. I want to get into the University of Ottawa Library to look at their rather large collection of early family histories for Quebec. Also a trip to Montreal would be very nice to have a look at the records there.

I am really enjoying my new picture frame. I am able to connect it to my computer and then just move files on to the 2 GB of storage on the frame. Already I have noticed a few items that escaped my attention earlier (and when I had less information). Being able to blend all my results in this way could just be another tool to use in working through my families before census.

I have now reached 8000 baptisms at Andover St Marys as of 15 December 1708. There are probably concurrently two Richard Spring families at Andover which is interesting to find (possibly father and son). Mary Spring was baptized 2 Dec 1692 and was the only survivor of the three children of Richard Spring (son of Richard Spring and Ellen Drew) and Jone Watkins. I am not sure if Richard then married twice more as there are two more marriages for Richard Spring but it also could be the other Richard Spring. One of these Richard Springs is the Clerk and once I ferret out that information I may have a better picture of the Spring family at Andover.

I am thinking that I might start a reading list. It seems rather late to start one as I have read thousands and thousands of books in my lifetime but perhaps it would be interesting to do so. I have just read two of Edward Rutherfurd's books - New York and The Rebels of Ireland (I have already read - London, Sarum, Russka, The Forest, Princes of Ireland). I used to read Historical Fiction as a child but haven't done so in years until just lately. I prefer religious, documentaries, biographies, historical, geographical, natural history and scientific literature for the most part in adulthood. Starting 1 January 2011 I shall record my books in rigorous fashion with all the bibliographic details. I purchased a book yesterday that struck my fancy by Andrew Roberts - A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900. I was looking for some thing else to do that kept me away from the computer and I think that reading may be another good item along with exercise!

I have not read any of Andrew Roberts books but note that I may do so as he has written: The Holy Fox, a Life of Lord Halifax; Eminent Churchillians; The Aaschen Memorandum; Salisbury: Victorian Titan; Napoleon and Wellington; Hitler and Churchill; Waterloo, and one as Editor: What Might Have Been.

http://www.andrew-roberts.net/index.asp (website for Andrew Roberts)

I renewed my library card as well. I do not want to now begin to increase our library to any great extent as we already have thousands of books and have been slowly downsizing them for sales by the Friends of Library and Archives Canada (my husband is involved with this group once a week where he goes to the sorting day).

Roberts, Andrew. 2006. A History of the English-Speaking Peoples since 1900. London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson. ISBN 13:9780297850762 736 pages, 26 illustrations.

I was three years old when I started to read. My maternal grandmother decided to teach me to read (although I do not recall this in any detail she told me later) because I was with her one day when the son of a neighbour who was studying to be an ophthalmologist dropped by to visit with her. He told her I would be blind by the time I was 20 years old and it so upset her that she decided to teach me to read. Actually I can still see and I am now 65 but that was a long time ago and perhaps he wanted to encourage her to work with me. Hard to say really. She used to read to me out of her set of Books of Knowledge. From that early start I then myself read the Encyclopaedia Britannica as a child. I read and read when I was young taking home every week from the "Bookmobile" which stopped in front of our Doctor's house/office the maximum number. It was around the corner from our street and I used to see our Doctor there as well selecting books and it was he who first directed me to medical books that were on the Bookmobile and encouraged me to read them as well. I did not end up going into medicine (as he seemed to hope I would),but did work in the medical field for quite a while.

Blake family at Penton Mewsey

The Blake family at Penton Mewsey includes the forename Sacheverall. He is the son of Robert Blake baptized the 20 Aug 1710 and born 11 Aug 1710. The forename Sacheverall occurs in the Charles Blake family at Abbotts Ann. Charles Blake was born circa 1709 and at this time his parents are unknown although many descendants of this line attach Charles to the Thomas Blake family at Andover (my ancestor). The Charles bc 1709 married Mary Prince 4 Sep 1736 at Abbotts Ann. The Prince family were land owners at Abbotts Ann and somewhat more substantial than the land held by Charles Blake. Their only son Charles baptized 24 Jun 1737 at Abbotts Ann married Jane Gilbert 11 January 1761 at Abbotts Ann (I need to verify this entry as the LDS shows Old Alresford and I do have the fiche for Abbotts Ann). Jane Gilbert actually descended from the Blake family with her 3x great grandmother being Elizabeth Blake married to John Kidgell (Elizabeth was the daughter of Blake and Elizabeth Hinxman - the unknown Blake was likely Thomas Blake but still working on that proof). One of the sons of Charles Blake and Jane Gilbert received the name Sacheverall (John, James, Robert, and Charles were the other siblings). The will of John Blake (on my webpage) mentions this family in a way that would indicate a fairly close relationship between himself and the Charles Blake/Jane Gilbert family. John was a malster at Abbotts Ann and he also mentioned my Thomas Blake (and his siblings) at Upper Clatford but not in a way that indicated such a close relationship.

My suspicion is that Charles is the son of Robert Blake (father of Sacheverall baptized at Penton Mewsey) or Charles Blake who married Jane Frampton at Andover in 1683 although the time frame doesn't work quite as well. At the moment I do not have any children for the Charles Blake/Jane Frampton marriage so the Robert Blake line seems the more logical. There is a John Blake baptized 1714 at Penton Mewsey and the son of Robert Blake. He would be 82 in 1796 when John Blake died at Abbotts Ann if they are the same individual (John lived and married at Abbotts Ann but he was not baptized there as far as I can tell thus far). In that case the Charles Blake family (married to Jane Gilbert) would have been his great nephews. The will read like the relationship was that close. The relationship with my own line is still a mystery.

Thomas (my 3x great grandfather and mentioned in the will) Blake's grandfather Thomas King had left a bequest to the daughter of John Blake Malster so that the relationship could have been on the King side of the family rather than the Blake. It is a mystery! Every time I find new information it always provides at least one mystery or more which keeps one at genealogy for hours at a time trying to sort out the new mysteries.

William Blake at Eastontown

I received a digital frame for Christmas. A wonderful gift and I am already putting it to good use. I filled it with images that I have from other people where they can not name the people but I have seen some of them in my childhood. I wondered if glancing at them through the day might just pop a memory chord.

I also loaded on the Visitations that I have and as I watched the Riggs family flash by I noted that William Blake is the father and he is of Eastontown according to their visitation. One William Blake at Eastontown is the son of Nicholas Blake and the father of Richard Blake (I believe this is my line of descent). However the Wiltshire Chart shows a William Blake of Eastontown married to Avis Ripley and lists children John, William, Peter, Margaret (married to John Blake) and Agnes (married to Roger Hyde).

I do not think they are the same William Blake as the will of William Blake (one of them) does not list the daughter Agnes Hyde and she was still living in 1582. Why ever would he leave out his daughter married to the eminent Hyde family? Definitely his daughter Margaret would not have married his son John.

Both Margaret and John have a father William Blake and both of these Williams appear to live at Eastontown according to various visitations. The question perhaps is - Is Eastontown actually East Anton which lay to the north east of Andover? The will of William Blake (son of William Blake and grandson of William Blake (son of Nicholas)) written 1 August 1606 locates him at Eastontown as well. but the will of William Blake senior in 1645 is at East Anton. I need to purchase this will (from the Hampshire Record office) as it would appear to be the grandson of William Blake who died in 1607.

Being able to definitively link this Blake family to East Anton may answer a few questions. If indeed this is referring to the location East Anton and called it Eastontown then there are known to be a number of "farms" in this area and one could then realize that there could conceivably be two William Blake families living in the same area at the same time (and the taxes do show two William Blakes one at Knights Enham and the second at Enham (both of these locations are very close to East Anton)). I do not know of whom the William at Knights Enham is the son although Visitations show him to be the son of Roger Blake as is also shown on the Wiltshire Chart (Pedigree of Richard Blaake). The other William Blake is the eldest son of Nicholas Blake.

The Wiltshire Chart shows a line to be through William Blake as a son of Roger Blake and Mary Baynard. But the extant Visitations do not list a son William in this family. However, I may not have access to documents that might show such a relationship so will have to wait to see what comes forward especially with the marriage of Prince William and Kate Middleton this spring. Perhaps a new genealogy will appear for this couple which could lead to interesting discoveries.

Diana Princess of Wales is descendant of the Blake family at Eastontown it would appear through the book published on her ancestry by Richard K Evans that her 12x great grandparents are Thomas Blake and Eleanor Hall. Richard Evans has limited his display to 12 generations back so that parents of this Thomas Blake are not listed. They are however listed on a Visitation where Thomas' father is named as John Blake but no reference to his mother's name. This family is said to have lived at Essington Hampshire. I have not yet located Essington on the map although I think it may be an alternative name for Eastontown as it is mentioned on the Wiltshire Chart.

I think one of my next steps will be to transcribe the wills once I reach the end of Parish Register 7 at Andover. I can also transcribe the Penton Mewsey records at the same time. It will give me a little variety :) As usual, one looks at items differently depending upon the time at which you examine them. The impact of the Visitation for the Riggs Family is quite timely just to keep me looking for answers.

Blake in Ireland

The 8/12 match for I2a2 at the Blake yDNA research study has now listed Ireland as his ancestor's location (furtherest back known). That is always interesting! I can trace my line back in the Andover area to the early 1500s/late 1400s depending on when Nicholas was born. This is the closest match that I have ever found for my line. I wish I could correspond with this person but that hasn't become available yet. Having the same surname is most interesting. One of the differences is likely peculiar to my specific line leaving me with three fast moving markers where I would expect to find changes. If this person has a long history in Ireland then family lore that has a descendant of Richard Blaque alias Blaake going to Ireland in the 1200s becomes most interesting. That is a separation of at least 22 generations so that three differences is not all that great given the ones that do match. Patient waiting may yet give answers to this Blake family line. The paper is now published in the Anglo Celtic Roots. My husband has heard a few comments on the paper but so far no impact on the study itself. I am rather hoping that the 20 to 30 Blake members who have tested at FT DNA and are not currently members of our project might join. I suspect a lot of them are descended from the Irish Blake lines in the project but one never knows.

I am continuing with the Andover Parish Registers and have now reached April 1707 with 7850 baptisms from the beginning of the registers in 1588. This particular set of baptisms is not in the IGI. My line does not appear in the IGI but the Upper Clatford baptisms are in the BVRI II. Once I have proofread the Andover Registers I will submit them to the OPC Hampshire webpages.

Blake at Penton Mewsey

I think that reviewing one's information is always very valuable and I suppose I have looked at the baptisms of the children of William Blake and Ann Hellier hundreds of times but the notation that they were baptized at Penton has always just rolled in and out without making an impact. I checked the burial register as I mentioned earlier in the week for Bridget Blake but the burials are basically missing from 1649 to 1653. I do not find a marriage for Bridget Blake at least not at Andover.

Obviously my next set of transcriptions should be Penton Mewsey where I have the fiche:

Parish Register 1 - CMB 1647-1679
Parish Register 2 - CMB 1673-1744
Parish Register 3 - CMB 1744-1812
Parish Register 5 - M 1755-1812

I did not purchase Parish Register 4 which is Christenings 1813-1926, Parish Register 6 which is Marriages from 1813-1848, Parish Register 7 which is Marriages from 1838-1977 or Parish Register 9 which is Burials from 1813-1995.

I know my direct Blake family was at Upper Clatford from 1757 on when Joseph Blake (of Andover) married Joanna King of Upper Clatford at Upper Clatford 8 Jun 1757.

I did extract Blake entries from Penton Mewsey but I have found this to be unreliable as one can miss entries going purely on a visual rundown through a page on the fiche with 60 pages.

Service Year Month Day Birth Surname Forename Relationship Father Surname Father Forename Mother Surname Mother Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename Residence Note
Burial 1652 Aug 13 Blake Elizabeth daughter Blake John
Burial 1653 Apr 10 Blake John Gent
Baptism 1653 July 31 Blake Joseph son Blake John
Burial 1676 Dec 16 Blake Clementie wife Blake Peter
Marriage 1677 June 28 Blake Peter Noyes Anne Groom, Clatford; Bride otp
Marriage 1677 June 26 Blake Peter Godfrey Anne Groom, otp; Bride Upton
Baptism 1678 Apr 12 Blake Peter son Blake Peter Ann
Baptism 1680 May 2 Blake Ann daughter Blake Peter
Burial 1688 Mar 18 Blake John
Burial 1690 May 29 Blake Peter
Baptism 1693 Apr 20 20 Apr 1693 Blake John son Blake John Em
Burial 1693 Apr 20 Blake John son Blake John
Burial 1694 Nov 16 Blake Thomas
Baptism 1694 Jan 3 17 Dec 1694 Blake Joseph son Blake John Em
Baptism 1696 Dec 2 2 Dec 1696 Blake Sarah daughter Blake John Em
Baptism 1700 Oct 6 22 Sep 1700 Blake Ann daughter Blake John
Baptism 1704 June 22 20 Jun 1704 Blake Thomas son Blake John
Baptism 1706 Sep 6 4 Sep 1706 Blake William son Blake John
Burial 1706 Dec 1 Blake John
Baptism 1707 Mar 25 25 Mar 1707 Blake Elizabeth daughter Blake Peter
Burial 1708 Dec 22 20 Dec 1708 Blake Ann daughter Blake Peter
Burial 1709 Feb 3 1 Feb 1709 Blake Mary daughter Blake Peter
Baptism 1710 Aug 20 11 Aug 1710 Blake Sachaverell son Blake Robert
Burial 1710 Aug 24 Blake Sarah
Baptism 1711 July 5 5 Jul 1711 Blake Peter son Blake Peter
Burial 1711 Dec 19 Blake Alice widow
Burial 1712 Aug 7 Blake Peter
Baptism 1713 Mar 10 16 Feb 1713 Blake Jacob son Blake Peter
Baptism 1714 Feb 22 14 Feb 1714 Blake John son Blake Robert
Baptism 1717 Sep 24 3 Sep 1717 Blake John son Blake Peter
Baptism 1719 Apr 9 2 Mar 1718 Blake John son Blake John
Baptism 1719 Feb 21 17 Feb 1719 Blake Edward son Blake John
Burial 1720 Oct 12 Blake Joseph
Baptism 1721 Jan 24 21 Jan 1721 Blake William son Blake John
Baptism 1724 Oct 14 30 Sep 1724 Blake Thomas son Blake John
Burial 1724 Oct 19 Blake Joan wife Blake Peter
Baptism 1727 May 23 14 May 1727 Blake Benjamin son Blake John
Marriage 1728 Sep 8 Blake Thomas Carter Ann botp
Burial 1729 July 22 Blake Benjamin son Blake John
Baptism 1730 Nov 8 25 Oct 1730 Blake Benjamin son Blake John
Burial 1730 Feb Blake Benjamin son Blake John
Marriage 1730 Feb 11 Blake Joseph Holdway Mary Groom of Andover; Bride otp
Burial 1732 Sep 20 Blake Ann wife Blake Thomas
Burial 1732 Sep 22 Blake Thomas son Blake Thomas
Marriage 1733 July 3 Ventum Richard Blake Sarah Groom of East Tytherley, Bride of West Tytherley
Burial 1733 Aug 13 Blake Peter
Burial 1735 May 24 Blake Eme widow Blake John
Baptism 1744 May 14 Blake Thomas son Blake John Catherine
Marriage 1744 May 20 Blake Jacob Mosdown Mary Groom of Kimpton; Bride otp
Baptism 1744 Sep 15 Blake William son Blake Thomas Joan
Baptism 1744 Dec 15 Blake Benjamin son Blake John Catherine
Baptism 1748 Aug 21 Blake George son Blake Thomas Joan
Marriage 1748 Dec 7 Blake John Williams Mary By license
Burial 1755 July 30 Blake Joanna wife Blake John
Burial 1757 Feb 13 Blake John son Blake John John Blake Junior
Burial 1757 Aug 17 Blake John Senior
Burial 1758 Aug 17 Blake Thomas son Blake John
Marriage 1762 Feb 21 Allen Thomas Blake Ann botp both signed, witness John Blake (signed) and Martha Hunt
Burial 1782 Mar 15 Blake Joan wife Blake Thomas
Burial 1786 Jan 8 Blake Thomas
Burial 1791 May 11 Blake Catherine
Burial 1806 Nov 21 Blake John

The entries one would expect to find for William Blake and Ann Hellier's children in 1647, 1648, and 1649 do not exist as there were no entries for Blake until 1653 although I want to recheck that when I transcribe the entire set of fiche that I have.

There is also a burial for a John Blake in 1653 but no parents are listed and it would appear that the priest normally did that.

I ended up starting the next Parish Register (6) at Andover. Time just presented itself for me to do that. I may actually finish it off this week. That will put me at 1714 for CMBs. The next Parish Register 7 takes me from the middle of 1714 to 1746 for all CMBs. This is basically where I want to be and I may not then start the next Register (8) which would take me from 1748 to 1783 (not sure what happened to 1747) for all CMBs. The next Register (9) only does CBs with a separate marriage register (10) for the time period. There are four fiche for Parish Register 7 so over 230 pages to transcribe although the writing has improved considerably and I can move at a fairly rapid pace. The priests at Andover tend to be rather precise. They record the basic information (i.e. out of parish participants in a wedding) so that one can fairly safely assume that if not recorded then the participants are of the parish which can be most helpful on occasion.

Cheatle in Leicestershire

One of my brick walls is the family of Sarah Cheatle. I joined the Leicester Rootsweb list and sent in my information on Sarah Cheatle. Sarah married William Welch 24 August 1818 at Longdon by Lichfield Staffordshire. By the 1851, 1861, and 1871 census she was born 1795-1796 at Ashby de la Zouch. I have read the Parish Registers for Ashby de la Zouch in this time period and there are three possible Sarah Welch baptisms. Possible parents were: William and Ann, William and Sarah and Benjamin and Catherine. On the marriage registration one of the witnesses is William Cheatle.

From the Parish Register:

Benjamin son of Benjamin Cheatle 27 June 1785 baptized
6 March 1786 William Cheatle and Elizabeth Sherwin both of this parish by banns
Richard son of Benjamin and Mary Cheatle 16 April 1787
28 Apri 1788 Benjamin Cheatle and Katherine Adams both of this parish by banns
Sarah Cheatle daughter of William and Ann Cheatle baptized 30 Sep 1789
27 Sep 1790 Ann Cheatle daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
11 April 1790 Ann Cheatle buried
John Cheatle son of Benjamin and Catherine 19 Sep 1790 baptized
15 Jun 1790 Simeon son of George and Ann Cheatle baptized
27 Dec 1791 Joseph son of Benjamin and Catherine Cheatle baptized
12 Apr 1792 Joseph Cheatle and Elizabeth Hefford both of this parish by banns
William 8 Apr 1793 son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
James son of Benjamin and Mary Cheatle 17 June 1794 baptized
10 Nov 1793 Sarah daughter of Benjamin and Catherine Cheatle baptized
31 May 1793 Sarah Cheatle buried
7 June 1793 John Cheatle buried
24 Jun 1794 Mary daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
Children, William, Elizabeth and Frances son and daughters of William and Ann
Cheatle 9 June 1802 baptized
Sarah 27 Jan 1795 baptized daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle
Joseph Cheatle buried 1803
28 Mar 1804 Catherine daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
21 Sep 1804 Catharine daughter of Benjamin and Catharine Cheatle baptized
30 Dec 1804 Catherine Cheatle buried
8 Oct 1805 Elizabeth Cheatle buried
7 Feb 1807 Thomas Cheatle buried
20 Apr 1808 Ann Chettle buried
15 Mar 1808 Catharine Cheatle buried
11 Sep 1810 Benjamin Cheatle buried
28 Nov 1818 Elizabeth Cheatle buried 55 years
Mary Cheatle buried 1818 24 years

Sarah Cheatle baptized 27 January 1795 and the daughter of William and Sarah is the best fit. This family does not appear to be local to Ashby de la Zouch as Sarah is the only child that they baptize there. I am curious if this is William Cheatle and Sarah Woodcock of Castle Donnington. William CHEATLE married to Sarah WOODCOCK 23 Feb 1773 at Castle Donnington. William and Sarah CHEATLE baptized the following children at Castle Donnington (Mary 1775, John 1777, Ann 1780, Sarah 1783 and Elizabeth 1786). There was a burial for Sarah Cheatle 31 May 1793 at Ashby de la Zouch. The priest does not record in the burials section whether the individual was a child or adult; no age is given prior to 1813. The Cheatle family is small on the census. On any census 1841 to 1911 there are between 150 and 250 people with the exact name Cheatle in all of England. Their highest frequency in the world in 1998 remains in the Midlands of England as seen on the Public Profiler and in 1881 on this same website the highest frequency is in Leicester.

http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Surnames.aspx

I have extracted some information on this family in Leicester.

Parish Year Month Day Surname Forename Will/Admon# Information
Thornton 1642 Apr 9 Chettle Nicholas PRI/I/44/5 £27 0s 0d
Croft 1643 Apr 7 Chettle John PR/I/44/89 Weaver, Will & Admon 1643 (in 1642 file), Date of inventory - 7th Apr 1643, Total £139 14s 0d
Thornton (10 miles from Loughborough) 1648 Dec 14 Cheatle Robert PR/I/56/36 1661C for Admon
Leicester Borough 1668 Nov 21 Chettle Richard PR/I/67/158 Chandler, Admon 1668, £15 5s 0d
Long Whatton (5 miles from Loughborough) 1675 Mar 6 Cheatle William PR/I/78/72 £48 11s 0d
Sileby (5 miles from Loughborough) 1676 Aug 29 Chettle Thomas PR/I/78/136 £129 16s 8d Yeoman, Will and Admon 1676
Leicester 1676 Sep 17 Chetle Jonathan PR/I/99/64 £66 18s 5d
Woodhouse Eaves (4 miles from Loughborough) 1680 Mar 16 Cheatle William PRI/I/82/253 Husbandman, £31 1s 10d
Loughborough 1684 Jan 1 Cheatle William PR/I/86/219 Tanner, £58 16s 4d
Hugglescote (9 miles from Loughborough) 1693 Sep 26 Chettle William PR/I/97/67 £49 17s 0d
Ashby de la Zouch (12 miles from Loughborough) 1698 Sep 16 Cheatle Richard PR/I/103/84 £11 4s 0d
Longborough 1704 Sep 20 Cheatle Samuel PR/I/111/103 Tanner, £255 10s 4d
Leicester Borough (10 miles from Loughborough) 1707 Jan 6 Chettle (Chetle) Samuel PR/I/114/107, Slater, £4 12s 2d
Syston 1708 Jun 3 Chettle Thomas PR/I/115/68 £22 17s 4d

The reference to distance from Loughborough is added by me. Loughborough appears to be the central point between all of these areas in which the family lived.

The Poll book for Leicester 1741:

Hundred Freeholder Freehold Cave Smith Ashby Page
Framland Chettle, Robert Ab Kettleby x x 17
Goscote East Twiford Chettle, William Siston x 61
Guthlaxton Knaptoft Chettle, William Kilworth North x 99
Goscote West Donnington Castle Chettle, John Donnington on the Heath x 70
Guthlaxton Walcote Chettle, John Long Whatton x x 106
Guthlaxton Walcote Chettle, Michael Belton x x 106
Sparkenhoe Ratcliffe Cuiley Chettle, Joseph x x 131
Sparkenhoe Witherley Chettle, Richard x x 139

Interestingly there is a John Chettle at Donnington Castle in 1741.

On the Roots Web Leicester site another individual is descended from Catherine Cheatle (baptism above) and she is her 3x great grandmother. Interesting for me as Sarah Cheatle is my 3x great grandmother. She is the first person I have found researching the Cheatle family. Since they are both in Ashby de la Zouch in the same time period we might be able to work together on this family.

I continue transcribing the Andover Parish Registers and have now completed to October 1703 with 7540 baptisms recorded now from the beginning of the Parish Registers.

Andover Poor Law Rate

Images from Salt Lake City are of interest as well in this time frame for the Parish Registers (1620, 1669, 1673) and are rather interesting with regard to the Blake family.

1620 Andover Blake Mr. Peter Blake for Perwel
late Mr. William Blake 0 6 0
1620 Andover Blake Mr. Richard Blake 0 2 0
1620 Andover Blake Mr. Peter Blake 1 2 3
1669 Andover Blake Mr. Peter Blake 2 8 9
1669 Andover Blake Mr. Rob[er]te Blake 0 3 2
1669 Woodhouse Richard Clarke for Widd Blake 0 4 6
1669 Enham Regis Blake Mrs. Eliz: Blake 0 8 4
1669 Enham Regis Blake Mrs. Joane Blake Widd 0 19 6
1669 Hatherden Blake Mr. Edward Blake 0 ? 2
1673 Andover Blake Mr. Peter Blake 0 3 9
1673 Andover Blake Mr. Robert Blake 0 0 4

William Blake is suspiciously absent (Clerk, son of William and Dorothy Blake who gradually through the 1600s sold off any property that he had). William dies at Foxcott (owned by the Hinxman family and William's uncle Joseph was Lord of the Manor). His son John is not mentioned although he does appear on the Poll book in 1710. He does not have the title Mr. nor does his father when he is buried. The Manor books would probably answer some questions on this family. Was he ill? I do not find a death yet for his wife Ann Hellier Blake (father Hugh Helyer). His older son William appears to have died young. The only daughter Bridget I need to check the records to see if I actually found anything for her. When I transcribe I do not always check each individual entry as I record it because I will be going back to them!

Continuing with the Parish Register I have now completed to May 1703 in the baptisms with a total of 7504 from the beginning of the Registers. The number has silently crept up to this level as I now realize I have an enormous number of entries for some family lines - Blake of course, Hopgood, Hinxman, Allen, Watters, Hawkince (Hawkins), Long and I must make a list of the families that have been in the registers for more than one hundred years as that would be quite interesting. This is still a rather small town judging from the number of baptisms. The growth spurt is to come for Andover.

Completed Parish Register 5 St Marys Andover

I completed the 5th Parish Register for St Marys Andover and now have 7141 baptisms to the end of September 1699, 1705 marriages to April 1701 and 6885 burials to the middle of 1714 plus 182 sets of Banns for the period 1653-1658. My excel file is now 3 MB in size.

We have tried unsuccessfully to get to Church for three Sundays running now and will try for this Sunday. Tithing on par has meant that I do not have to be there to give my tithes in in person and it has had a rather liberating effect on my Church attendance. I enjoy attending but I also enjoy my transcribing and often enough the one wins out over the other. I still feel close to God and sometimes as I age I wonder which is the more important being close to God at Church or feeling close to God at home. I have tithed now for over 44 years since we got married with just a ten year break whilst I was at home earning very little money copyediting and proofreading at first.

On to the 6th Parish Register for St Marys Andover and the register is in script now for the most part. Not too bad to read just have to concentrate on some of the letters so as not to mix them up. Henry Lambden's marriage has been mistranscribed as Henry Camden in 1699. Is this my Lambden line at Andover? These baptisms are not on the IGI and Nathaniell is a frequent name in this time interval in the registers. Perhaps I will be lucky and find the baptism of Nathaniell at Andover after searching diligently for a number of years now in Berkshire. I will be able to remove Berkshire from my list of counties at least for the present. Henry Lambden was of Stock (is this Stoke Charity?). Stoke Charity is only 4 miles from Barton Stacy and five miles from Longparish (both of these parishes are well represented in the marriage records at Andover). Andover seems like a "gathering spot" for marriages in the area and amazingly far away (without a county designation they are mostly Hampshire although Sarum being well known is of course in Wiltshire. Parishes represented include:

Abotts Ann
Actsminster, East Woodhay
Amport
Anton
Appleshewe
Ashmansworth
Barton Stacye
Beauly
Beeching Stoake, Wiltshire
Bickelbery
Bidsden, Ludgershall, Wiltshire
Bishops Waltham
Borington
Boyton, WIL
Broughton
Brummim, WIL
Bruton, Somerset
Bulinton
Burbage, WIL
Burclear
Burslane
Bushy Down
Buttermere
Buxcleer
Canfeild, Weyhill
Cayton Buzard
Chard, Somerset
Charlton
Chierly, Berkshire
Chilbolton
Churchon
Chute
Clatford
Collingborn
Collingborn Ducis
Collingborne Kingston, Wiltshire
Combe
Corwly
Devizes , WIL
Down Husbourn
East Choldertoune
East Wodhay
Eastontowne
Eggbury, St Mary Bourne
Embourne, Berkshire
Enford
Enham
Fackham
Farrington, Berkshire
Fifield
Filleden, WIL
Flouty House
Foxcott
Frinock
Froom, SOM
Fullarton
Goodworth Clatford
Great Bedwin, Wiltshire
Ham
Hanes, Surrey
Hatford, Berkshire
Hatherdene
Haughton
Haybourne Quil
Henly, parish of Buttermeer
Hicksclere
Hoddineton, Oxford
Hotten
Houghton
Houselbury
Huersley, WIL
Hungerford
Hunton, Crawly
Husborn Pryor
Husborn Upper
Husborne Tarrant
Husford
Hustborie tall
Hustborne Tarrant
Ibsror
Inkpen
Isle of Wight
Karsingstock
Kimpton
Kingscleere
Kingsomborne
Knights Enham
Laverstock and Ford, Wiltshire
Leckfield
Lestford
Little Ann
Little Basing
Little Beding
Littleton, Kimpton
Lockford
London
Longparish
Longstock
Lower Wallope
Ludgershall
Ludgershall, Wiltshire
Malborough, Wiltshire
Martyr Worthy
Millbrooke
MirMist, Amport
Monks Anne
Monxton
New Alresford
Newbury, Berkshire
Newport
Newtowne
North Bradley,Wiltshire
North Tidworth
Nubery
Overton
Oxforde
Parish of St Edmons, New Sarum
Penton
Penton Grafton
Penton Mewsey
Pewsey
Portsmouth
Quarly
Rabery, Berkshire
Rauerster
Reading
Redman, Fifeld
Rempen
Remsbery, WIL
Ringwood
Romsey
Russell
Sarum
Seend, Wiltshire
Shadeson, Kimpton
Shalborne
Shalden
Shodsden
Smannell
Snidhurst, Sussex
South Stoneham
South Tidworth
Southington
St Mary Bourne
St Mary Winchester
St Thomas Parish, Sarum
Stapleford, Wiltshire
Stock
Stockeridge
Stockford
Sutton
Tale
Tanglye
Tetcom
Thornyton
Thrapson
Tidworth
Tule
Tuste, Wiltshire
Upper Clatford
Upper Collingbourne
Upper Wollop
Upton
Upton
Wallop
Walts
Wanstone, Sutton Cotton
Warminster
Wayber
Wayhill
Weeke
Wenson
West Deane
West Tythyely
Westjohn, Wherwell
Wherwell
Whitchurch
White Parish, WIL
Wildhern
Wilscom, Somerset
Winchester
Winterborn Stoke
Winterslow, Wiltshire
Winton
Woodhouse

Andover Hampshire Records - still to transcribe

Carried on with my transcription of Andover Parish Registers and have reached 1694 in marriages. As many as 10% of these marriages a year are missing on the IGI - not sure why but the surname Tarlton was left out almost entirely. Others were simply difficult to read or were entered in such a way that they looked like they might belong with another entry. Sometimes it was reading one marriage and then the next had the same name and their eye probably dropped down a line and the higher entry was lost. I hope to finish the last dozen images this week and then I can start fresh again on the next Parish Register which will complete the Baptisms and Marriages up to 1714. My aim is to reach the mid 1700s and then go back to working on the wills. I have a couple more interesting items to transcribe but I can do them as I am looking at the wills. If I find that they may be very useful I may do them first. I have to look and see what they are as I acquired them at Salt Lake City two years ago (wow time passes!). One set of images is the Andover Manor papers which are in Latin but I can see the name Blake mentioned often enough.

Parish Register 5 Andover St Marys

The last fiche in Parish Register 5 which will bring me up to 1699 for baptisms, 1701 for marriages is down to the last 27 images (the marriages). Parish Register 4 brought me to June 1714 for burials. Parish Register 6 will bring the baptisms and marriages up to 1714. Total baptisms thus far in the Andover transcription as of 22 Sep 1699 total 7140; I will now transcribe the marriages hoping to complete that this week. Time will tell as it is a busy season!

I am surprised at the number of non-Andover baptisms (some from as far away as Devon and London). One is left with the impression that there was constant movement through Andover going west and east in the late 1600s. The marriages will be interesting if the priest recorded location if not Andover of the parties to a marriage. My own great grandfather Edward Blake of Upper Clatford (1 mile/1.5 km south of Andover) married Maria Jane Knight born and raised at Turnworth Dorset. I still have no idea of where they met although they did marry at Upper Clatford. There was a Knight family at Upper Clatford but they do not appear to be a relative of hers but the Knight family from which she descends was very large so could be a line I have missed. One thought has just occurred to me that I should check the census for that Knight family at Upper Clatford (never thought of doing that before but genealogy is a learning curve for me starting from absolutely no knowledge in 2005).

Another interesting line has emerged at Andover - Durnford. I suddenly have Jane Durnford daughter of Thomas Durnford and Mary Ball at baptized in 1771 at Winterborne Stickland Dorset. There is a Durnford family at Andover in the late 1600s. It is not a very common surname so quite struck me. I shall continue to view the entries with interest. That is really the benefit of transcribing the entire register of a place. You see the lines as they appear and disappear from a parish. You see all the marriages into particular names which you might not think to search on the IGI. This particular set of baptismal registers is not on the IGI however I believe that the marriages are for this time frame.

I did transcribe Knights Enham (link on my webpage or go to the OPC Hampshire site where it is posted) hoping to find some Blake lines there but the registers begin too late to assist in that regard (burials of the expected people in the late 1600s early 1700s as I know the descent of the family in this time period at Enham). The Manor Book would likely be interesting as the Blake family were first at Enham when I find them in the early 1500s in Hampshire. That is a project for Salt Lake City the next time we are there. I have the manor book for Andover (about 100 images) which I shall also try to transcribe. Much of it is in Latin but it would be a worthwhile project to look at the Blake family there since they held a number of properties in Andover itself in the 1500s and 1600s. In 1710 John Blake is still a freeholder and this I believe is John Blake married to Elizabeth and the son of William Blake Clerk and his wife Ann Hellier. Although by the end of the 1600s their holdings were considerably diminished. By the Poll of 1747 only Robert Blake appears as a freeholder and he is descendant of Robert Blake brother to Nicholas Blake. The Blake properties where they are still held are in the female Blake lines and the names have changed due to marriage.

Election Poll 1710 for Southampton (Hampshire

For a long time I have had on the back burner the project of transcribing the Poll Election booklet for Southampton (Hampshire) taken in 1710. It is interesting in that it has nearly 5000 names of individuals who are freeholders (there are no females listed unless they have a very obvious male name). I have been trying to determine just how many people would have lived in Southampton in 1710. The population of England was around 5 million so about 1/10th of the present population. The present population is concentrated in the cities so it would probably not be statistically correct to assume 10% (i.e. present population of Hampshire is 1.6 million in 2001). However, 10% would give us 160,000 for the entire county where one might look at a family average size as 8 instead of 4 so there might be 20,000 families but some families were very large skewing the results quite a bit. However that would mean that 1 in 4 were freeholders. I have no idea if that is a reasonable number. But a freehold could be very small. Interesting thought anyway.

Blake families in Hampshire in the Poll Booklet:

306 Andover Blake John
1035 Charlton Blake Mr. John
1134 Christ Church Blake John Gentleman
1135 Christ Church Blake Stephen
1730 Gosport Blake John
2115 Hillsey Blake John
2370 Lockerly Blake William
2462 Lymington Blake John
2615 Milton Blake William
2803 Northwood Blake John
2957 Penton Mewsy Blake Peter
4034 Southampton Blake Alexander
4381 St Wellow Blake Joseph

I hope to be able, using the wills, to determine the ancestral lines for these Blake families. Now to get back to working on the Andover Parish Registers. When I do start to transcribe these wills I want to have all of my material transcribed that will help me to locate these families.

The question in my mind is what happened to all the Blake families at Andover by 1700. William father and Richard son had enormous families (duly recorded in their wills) but by the end of the 1600s there are only two distinct lines of Blake at Andover - one descended from Robert and the other descended from Nicholas (brothers born towards the end of the 1400s (Robert died in 1542 and Nicholas in 1547). The eldest son of William (son of Nicholas) moved to Surrey along with his entire family as far as can be determined thus far. The next eldest son William lived between Andover and London. The third eldest son Peter was at the Middle Inn in London (no children). That left Thomas and Richard at Andover and there is a remote possibility that Thomas is the progenitor of the Blake line at Oxford and eventually Reading. Hence Richard was the only son at Andover in all likelihood. He was a Linen Draper and he had a large family as did his eldest son William.

A search on the Andover phone book for the Blake surname yields 15 results; Upper Clatford 1 result, Goodworth Clatford 1 result, Quarley 1 result, Little London 1 result, 55 at Southampton including one at 3 Cranbury Road (my father was born at 103 Cranbury Road). I know that my father is the only male grandson of Edward Blake carrying his surname so all of these Blake families in the Andover area are descended from the brothers and uncles of Edward Blake or from the other line at Andover. I suspect that the Southampton Blake families are a mixture of Blake families from Wiltshire and Hampshire and possibly even from the other areas in England where Blake spontaneously arose.

The yDNA paper on the Blake family is now published and can be seen on my webpage if you are not a member of BIFHSGO.

http://www.kipp-blake-families.ca/ACR-RevealingBLAKEfamily-ADNAstudy.pdf

Hopefully it will attract more people to the Blake Study which has members from around the world. Being able to actually separate out some of the lines is quite fascinating.

Continuing with the christenings for Andover I have reached Lady Day 1695 with 6750 christenings from the beginning of the Register. The total number of people on the Poll book at Andover is interesting at 160 individuals. The list follows for any who might be interested in the names in Andover in 1710. They match up very well with the register (I have put them in alphabetical order for ease in retrieval).

Aaron John
Andrews Thomas
Banks Alexander
Barnaby John
Barton Mr. Stephen
Bath Philip
Beale William
Bezer Joseph
Bezer Joseph
Binney Jacob
Bird Roger
Blake John
Brackston Richard
Bray John
Brice John
Brice Nathanael
Broad William
Bunce John
Bunny Benjamin
Bunny Joseph
Bunny John
Butcher William
Butcher William
Carter Giles
Clark John
Cook John
Cooper Michael
Cooper Robert
Cooper Isaac
Cornelius Henry
Cornelius John
Cornelius Henry
Cradock Peter
Crouch Michael
Crouch Thomas
Davis Thomas
Dowling William
Dudds Daniel
Earle John
Emmett William
Farr William
Flower Nicolas
Flower Daniel
Flower John
Fuller Abel
Gage Silas
Gale Thomas
Gale John
Gesney John
Gilmore Alexander
Golding William
Golding Richard
Goodall Henry
Goodall Richard
Goodall Henry
Goodwin John
Grace William
Gray Thomas
Gregory Edward
Gregory William
Griffin John
Grove James
Hall John
Hancock Robert
Haiter John
Head John
Hendy Robert
Hillman Robert
Hinxman Thomas Gentleman
Hinxman James
Holdway Edmund
Holland George
Hollis Samuel
Hooper Thomas
Hopgood John
Humphreys William
Ivory Robert
Jaques Thomas
Jennings Thomas
Jules Nicolas
Jules William
Jones John
King Isaac junior
King Thomas
Knight Thomas
Lambert Edmund Esquire
Leech Thomas
Leggatt William
Mackerell William
Mackerell Thomas
Manfield Robert
Mariner Joseph
Meless George
Miller John
Monk William
Mooring Joseph
Mooring John
Mountaine Joseph
Munday James
Musprett Jonah
Musprett John
Neale John
Neale Robert
Neale William
Neeles Benjamin
Noyes William
Noyes Robert
Noyes Peter
Nurse Richard
Olyffe John
Overton John
Page William
Payne William
Payne Thomas
Payne Robert
Payne Alexander
Peckingham Thomas
Philpot William
Pidding Daniel
Pike Daniel
Piper Thomas
Piper Robert
Pitt Robert Esquire
Pitt Thomas Esquire
Pollen Esquire
Powlett Lord William
Purdue John
Reynolds George
Russell Robert
Russell Richard
Scullard Zachariah
Scullard William
Shipton Morris
Shipton Thomas
Shipton Joseph
Smith John
Smith William
Smyth Thomas
Somner Christopher
Stevens John
Stratton Richard
Tarrant Randal
Tomms William
Tarlton Edward
Treacle Abraham
Turner John
Venter Abraham
Venter Walter
Wallis William
Waters Joseph
Watts John
Watts John
Watts William
Wayte John
Wayte Joseph
Wayte Richard
Webb Nathanael
White Joseph
Williams John
Wimbleton Joseph
Winbold Thomas

Updating T2 study

With ten new members and the paper to be published in the spring, my co-admin on the T2 project is really keen to get started breaking our large group up into subclades. I have held back because the existing structure for T2 is based on singleton entries at GenBank (and in papers). Although overall I think that The Netherlands Forensic Group is doing a great service to the mtDNA world there is the problem of conflicting results that are always in revision. The debate was whether to go with the existing chart and update our groupings or to wait for the paper that I am co-author on and then revise. I opted for waiting and that is probably the best state for me however starting to work on the individual groupings for my co-admin is not a problem and I have decided on a hands off approach for the moment. Once the paper is published then I shall also be in there setting up a new way to look at our groupings and then we can do genetic distance and have some meaning. For some the separation into country groupings has been quite interesting but others would prefer to see something different and that is soon to come. Hopefully everyone will eventually be happy as we could look at country groupings within the subclade groupings.

Still working on the Andover Parish Registers and no new Blake entries other than the two children of John and Elizabeth Blake - Ann and Richard died as small children. No Thomas Blake burial yet which still leaves me with two Thomas Blakes alive in 1708 when one of them marries Mary Spring. Mary is young, her father's heir as all of her siblings have now died (along with her mother). Her father has not remarried and he too will be buried not long after the marriage. The Spring family is not well to do but her father was a draper as far as I can tell thus far so that the two families share this particular occupation. The father of the older Thomas (b 1671) was according to his older brother a tradesman which seems peculiar as the last time we learn anything about John was that his mother left him money to attend Oxford. Perhaps he preferred to be a Tanner! Certainly my brothers preferred to be tradesmen so can quite understand that actually.

Up to 6282 burials as of end of 1708 and this parish register 4 ends in 1714 although the next burial register also has 1714 so will see if there is duplication. I begin parish register 5 which is the christenings and marriages from 1685 to 1701 with parish register 6 being the christenings and marriages from 1699 to 1714. I like the overlap and still have hopes on finding the missing burials and marriages. Interesting that the records appear to be mostly intact in the Commonwealth period. Likely because the parish priest continued to record the births in his capacity as Town Clerk. Very enterprising of him to take on the task since he could do the best job having already done it for a number of years.

I need to answer some enquiry emails as well. They entail some digging and right now I just feel like transcribing quietly but I will soon get them caught up. I love to travel but do find it exhausting mentally and physically. We will not go anywhere now that winter has come. I rather enjoy the long cold months of winter with the short days letting one put in enormous hours on the microfiche and other documents. Ancestry and Find My Past will be very busy these next few months as I have a lot of searches that I want to do.

Exciting news - Elizabeth Molton

I was contacted about a month ago by a researcher looking at the Arnold family - he had found my webpage entries for Arnold (and possibly my blog I think was in the email). They were enquiring about my Arnold line which is always very interesting to hear.

Hannah Arnold (my 4x great grandmother) married Charles Butt and for awhile I had the parents of Hannah wrong but now know that her parents were William Arnold and Elizabeth Malten however it isn't Malten (that is a bad transcription likely) - her surname was Molton and she was the daughter of William and Sarah Molton baptized 20 Apr 1766 at Winterborne Whitchurch which is stated in her marriage lines (not her parents but her place of birth). I have been trying to solve the Malten mystery for a bit although not with much attention I must admit. I am just starting now to work on the 4x great grandparents and I hadn't quite reached her.

My correspondent found the Elizabeth Molton baptism and realized that it was just a simple spelling error and sent it on to me - much appreciated to receive any comments on my lines and hope that people benefit from my research online. As it turns out the Molton family were at Winterborne Whitchurch at least from the latter part of the 1600s on and so the line goes back several generations on the OPC Dorset website.

Speaking of OPC Dorset I have now taken on Turnworth as well and must get that material submitted. This is the home of my Knight family (Louisa Butt married Samuel Knight (my 2x great grandparents with Louisa being the grandaughter of Elizabeth Molten).

I am carrying on with the Andover Parish Register 4 and have now reached 5728 burials as of March 1702/3. I found the burial of Charles Blake which is quite interesting. I did not notice it when I read the fiche but it was written in a very fancy script and my eye didn't pick it up. That is the very reason that I like to transcribe the registers that I work with - I find everything that way :) Charles is interesting because I have now discovered his ancestry back - he married at Andover but I could not find a baptism for him but he is listed in his father's will. One of my Blake correspondents traces back to Charles Blake who married at Abbotts Ann in 1737 and I rather think this is his line but a little more proof would be nice. The Abbotts Ann registers are particularly difficult in this time period but I will be working on them one of these days - perhaps when I reach the mid 1700s with the Andover I will then switch.

Snow on the ground here now and likely to stay. The ground is frozen and it is a dark day today - perfect for transcribing. The long cold winters are good for research. Soon we will have our skis and snowshoes out.

More Blake Burials at Andover

Continuing with the Andover Parish Register and I have reached 4865 burials by December 1692. There are several Blake burials that I would have expected to find here and do. I have their wills and need to transcribe them but will wait until I reach the mid 1700s in the Andover Register so that I have all the Blake names in these registers.

Many of the old families are still here but there are new names and Durnford is an interesting one. My 4x great grandmother married to John Butt was Jane Durnford. She was born at Winterborne Clenstone in 1771 according to another researcher. This Durnford family is not found commonly in this Dorset area prior to this time but could they have come from the Andover area? It is an intriguing thought.

These families are tied to the land as farmers/agricultural labourers in the mid 1700s but remembering how manors work they could have been moved by the lord of the manor between his estates. The time period between 1771 and 1845 when my Edward Blake is born is not that great in terms of people remembering each other and I may just extract the Durnford entries into a chart to see if I can discover any interesting marriages. I do not know where the parents of Jane Durnford (Thomas Durnford and Mary Ball) married. As far as I can tell it was not at Winterborne Clenstone and Jane was baptized at Winterborne Stickland. Unfortunately the records for Winterborne Stickland are still not on the OPC page (I do Winterborne Clenstone for the OPC Dorset site).

I will continue transcribing the Andover Parish Registers and I am currently on the 3rd fiche of the 4th register (all burials). I should finish all four fiche by mid-week. Then I begin parish register 5 and that is the christenings and marriages from 1685 to 1701. The burial register in this case goes to 1714.

At some point in the past I thought I found the burial of a Thomas Blake in this burial register. Now that I have just two candidates in this register it would be interesting to see if I am remembering correctly. Now that I am reconsidering Thomas Blake I am realizing that Thomas b 1761 could be my ancestor and that he married when he was older so that his death in 1714 does seem somewhat more reasonable (53 years) than the death of Thomas Blake b 1785 at 29 years of age. Finding the burial again could be most interesting as sudden death at 29 years of age was not that unusual. Joseph Blake was only 37 when he died (my 4x great grandfather). Both he and his eldest son died within 11 days of each other (the father and then the son). The register doesn't say that it was an accident in either case but Joseph was a farmer and his son Thomas would have been old enough to be helping him. My ancestor, also named Thomas, was born posthumously five months later.

Wrapped in Woollen

When we were in England you see sheep everywhere and I am now working through the burial register for Andover where you had to have an affidavit to prove that your remains were wrapped in woollen (otherwise you paid a fine). The staple of wool in England's economy goes back a long long way and this guaranteed a ready market for wool in the domestic economy.

Nowadays car seats are stuffed with wool thus maintaining this essential domestic use of wool in England. We found it amazing to see how sheep are integrated into the lives of the people of England. They were busy munching on the golf greens where we visited with special gratings so that they could not wander. The feral ponies as well were here and there. The golfers just continue their game through the maze of sheep and ponies quite undaunted. Whilst we had dinner one evening we watched as the sheep ran up and down the hill outside of where we were (we were eating mutton as it turned out!). With such a severe distinction between farmland and city dwelling as we have here in Canada, our children miss out on this natural element of life.

Continuing with the burial register, I have now completed the first of four fiche for the fourth register at Andover(1678 - 1714) and found the burial for Richard Blake. He is a person of interest as there are only two Blake lines at Andover in this time period - mine and his it would appear. I still need to determine if there are private records for Foxcott, Eastonton and some of the other small manors around Andover. But for the moment I am happily working my way through the Andover registers. I know that my line lived in the town of Andover so I would expect to find their records here but not checking everywhere may mean that I miss a clue.

Following the family lore back to Nicholas Blake there are only so many lines since Nicholas had only two sons William and Stephen with Stephen's line appearing to die out early in the 1600s which would negate my following that line. William's line though is very large in the 1500s and early 1600s with one section moving to Surrey in the 1630s and another to London earlier than that. I know mine didn't do that (they were younger sons) but the actual connection from Thomas back to Nicholas is still on the drafting board although the Thomas (baptized 1709 at Andover) to Thomas (baptized 1685) to John to William to William to Richard to William still has good merit but I am also looking at Thomas (baptized 1709) to Thomas (baptized 1671) to John to William to Richard to William (one generation less).

Up to 4068 baptisms at the end of May 1684. In this same time period there were 5791 baptisms so still a positive growth period for Andover. Infant death rate is still high and those that survived childhood often lived to a rather good age. This is a rural area but I think other than London most of the cities in England were not at this time battling pollution from coal burning fireplaces.

I worked on the H11 haplogroup full genetic scan results yesterday and surprisingly the 43 results fall into a rather neat pattern with two major branches - H11a and H11b (the difference being the presence of mutations at 961 and 16293 with H11a having the mutations and H11b not having these mutations but having mutations at 7645 and 13572 (H11a does not have these mutations)). All but three in H11a have the mutation 16293 (mine happens to be one of the ones that has back mutated 16293) which is also interesting. The H11b has one distinct subgrouping (H11b1) with the H11a having six subgroupings H11a1, H11a2, H11a3, H11a4, H11a5, and H11a6. These subgroupings for H11a1 through H11a6 further subdivide into: H11a1a, H11a2a, H11a2a1, H11a2b, H11a3a, H11a5a, H11a5b adding another seven data points. It is still only on 43 samples though so not scientifically sound. However, the divergences within the datapoints between individual samples is there and there are always at least two samples per datapoint. My results would be H11a2a1 which is part of the larger grouping which has the 16293 mutation along with 16092 and 16140. Others within this grouping H11a2 have backmutated 16092 and/or 16140. However with only 43 samples this is not yet scientifically sound and will have to await at least another 60 samples before one could really attach any significance to the charting.

H11 is a rather small haplogroup occuring at roughly 1% within H haplogroup the mother group. It is one of the oldest haplogroups in H with an approximate age of 48000 years. This grouping would have wintered at Ukraina during the last glacial maximum and then moved out from there in likely successive waves across the Scandinavian Peninsula, across eastern Europe through Germany to England to Ireland and also moving south to Greece. There are "resting points" for H11 in all of these locations.

From Ian Logan's website:

H11

The details of the sequences are:

1. Achilli A19.JS AY738958(Italy)

2. Herrnstadt (4)A33.JS mtDNA321(Europe)
3. Herrnstadt (4)A49.JS mtDNA343(Europe)
4. Herrnstadt (6)A22.JS mtDNA493(Europe)

5. Argus A3.JS EF545566

6. FTDNA A26.JS FJ560912

Changes from CRS of:

A263G A750G A1438G A4769G A8860G T14470A A15326G

and allowing for:

-the changes at 309 & 315

- the variable nature of 16519

The Mutation lists are:

1. Achilli A19.JS AY738958(Italy)
T195C T961G T8448C C8898T G13759A C16278T T16311C

2. Herrnstadt (4)A33.JS mtDNA321(Europe)
T961G A982G T8448C C8898T G13759A A14587G

3. Herrnstadt (4)A49.JS mtDNA343(Europe)
T961G T8448C C8898T G13759A

4. Herrnstadt (6)A22.JS mtDNA493(Europe)
T961G T8448C G13759A

5. Argus A3.JS EF545566 (14470)
T195C T961G A3145G T8448C G13759A A14587G T16140C
A16293G T16311C

6. FTDNA A26.JS FJ560912
T195C T961G A3145G T8448C A9204G G13759A A14587G
T16092C T16140C T16311C

Andover Parish Records - 2 December 2010

Back to Andover and I am deeply immersed in the burials which are now written up with the woollen affidavit. This was truly a nice happening as it started with the burials of 1678 which I could barely read and brought me forward to where I am at the present April 1682. There are 3826 burials as of 19 April 1682 (five more years and I will have 100 years of burials). There were a lot of burials in the fall of 1681 so must check for a communicable disease which might be listed somewhere.

I have a number of names that interest me in this area and I have now come across a rather interesting one - Launden at Woodhouse (a small estate just north east of Andover). I have a Lambden family at Woodhouse in the 1740s that is a strong interest of mine and I am wondering if the priest decided to spell their name differently. As I work my way through the register I may just be lucky and find my Nathanaell Lambden. Up to this point in time I have tried the Lambden family at St Mary Bourne which originated in Berkshire. It is a rather largish brick wall. Elizabeth Lambden (daughter of Nathanaell) lived to be 96 years old and on the last census in 1861 she listed her occupation as shepherd. My grandfather (born in 1875) was still hearing stories about his grandmother's mother! Living next door or with (as in my case) grandparents is an intriguing experience for a child. You just learn so much history by listening to grandparents talk especially when they have a strong interest in their own family history. My grandfather knew all of his grandparents (except his paternal grandfather who had died in 1873 (born 1797) just two years before he was born) and several great grandparents. Although he was from a large family, they did appear to go from Upper Clatford to Turnworth Dorset where his mother's family (she was born there).

I intend to immerse myself in these registers for a few days whilst I settle back into my work schedule. I have slowly withdrawn from a lot of my usual "web haunts" and I have a couple of projects that I want to do before I become deeply involved again!

Return Home

Yesterday I flew back from Milwaukee in two steps with a change of plane in Toronto. I left Milwaukee at 9:30 a.m. CST and arrived home at 14:00 p.m. EST - 3.5 hours from one to the other and its takes two days to drive there (at least it does us!). The stopover in Toronto was 1 h 20 minutes so just about two hours of flying time. Planes have it hands down for getting someplace in a reasonable amount of time. However, you do not see a lot of scenery (the clouds this time were very thick and I saw the least amount of terra firma that I have ever seen on an aeroplane. That is the only real drawback to going by air. The best is the train I think - I do not have to do any driving and get to look around me all the time (at least in the daytime).

I did not do very much genealogy in Milwaukee. Just one day at the Public Library. The other day that I spent at the University Library Archives was more of a look at Milwaukee and Wisconsin. Wisconsin is actually one of the largest populations of Kipp in the United States. However, as best as I could determine, the Kipp families that live in Milwaukee are principally descended from the Kipp family of Germany not the Kip family of New Amsterdam/New York.

Now I want to get back to doing my transcription of Andover Parish Registers. I did learn whilst I was away that the Genuki Hampshire webpages will now have a new maintainer - a relief for me as the webpagery just seemed to be a bit beyond my grasp. I couldn't seem to manage with the generated pages and have them pick up my new information. Plus the new maintainer lives in England so that I know they will have a wonderful opportunity to grow as I wanted them to do but just couldn't seem to get to that stage.

I will be guest editor for ACR this next issue (spring) and I am looking forward to that task. As well I have become the Eastern Canadian co-ordination for the Guild of One Name Studies - a more manageable task for me as I live in the area.