We finally had a snowfall; not a lot but it has begun. We are so used to snow that not having it seems like a bit of a shock! No skating; no skiing and even walking in the snow is fun when there isn't any ice.
Must get out shopping now that the madness of Boxing Day specials is over. Usually we do not shop on Boxing Day very much. Just too busy and we are in a downsizing mood. Interesting looking back at earlier pictures when our house was much emptier and we were young. Then we spent the next 30 years filling the house up and now we want to empty it again! Interesting concept really and perhaps these days people do less of the filling up.
The end of 2015 and I reached 70 years this year. When I was young I used to wonder what it would be like in 2015. I imagined that we would be further along with space travel. That we would know more about the universe and would be in more control of our planet in terms of protecting the environment. But it is never to late to work on that one as well.
2016 is going to be my year to get things written up. Construct a new path for my one name studies and keep up with my emails which have climbed to 50 in my inbox that need to be answered. For some I just cannot decide how to answer them. Now that I have so much material online I get queries from all around the world wondering why I came up with the thoughts that I did. So many people want to be related to Admiral Robert Blake. I am beginning to wonder if I am the only person in the world who does not mind being related to just the people that I actually am related to! I have no interest in trying to match myself up to any famous ancestors. I just think that is unlikely. My grandfather Blake always said we were not related to Admiral Blake and that is certainly good enough for me. I do not think we are either.
It is just so much fun to find the people that I am related to that trying to work through a maze reaching out to 20th cousins just doesn't really appeal to me.
The next 52 ancestor Challenge and likely I will not repeat that exercise again for a while but it just seemed like an opportune time to relook at all those French Canadian ancestors, my husband's colonial ancestors that I was really tempted to do that.
For myself I continue with my story and I am up to 1992 and over 400 pages. There are hundreds and hundred of pictures included as I decided the best way to tell one's story is in pictures especially given that both my husband and my father were avid picture takers. I also thought that in the future one is more likely to pick up a story about the pictures than to sit and look at the 30 family picture albums that we put together throughout our 50 years of marriage. Yes indeed this year we will be married 50 years. I was 20 when we married and it does seem like a long long time ago. Memories of my life before marriage have faded a great deal plus that house has not been my parent's home for over 40 years so no constant remembrance there.
How to celebrate such an anniversary; it will be with a month long trip through the British Isles (escorted tour) and we are looking forward to doing that.
All in all 2016 looks to be a rather interesting year. I have one lecture left to give and it is a joint lecture with John Reid (he will be the principal speaker) and it is a 2 hour workshop on DNA at the Ottawa Public Library Saturday, January 30th.
Monday, December 28, 2015
Friday, December 25, 2015
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas and God's blessings to all.
As a child we would have attended Christmas Eve service and again on Christmas Day. Church was the center of our lives and I wish it still was to be honest. But I must do my family duties first; I believe God would see that as well. So instead of Christmas Eve service I was busy preparing a Tourtiere for Christmas Eve dinner and then a massive cleanup. This morning I awoke early and completed the manger scene complete with Baby Jesus which I have done every year since we first set up a manger scene when our eldest daughter was just seven months old. It was a paper punch out scene but it was just as wondrous as the china scene that we now have with the wooden stable.
God bless.
As a child we would have attended Christmas Eve service and again on Christmas Day. Church was the center of our lives and I wish it still was to be honest. But I must do my family duties first; I believe God would see that as well. So instead of Christmas Eve service I was busy preparing a Tourtiere for Christmas Eve dinner and then a massive cleanup. This morning I awoke early and completed the manger scene complete with Baby Jesus which I have done every year since we first set up a manger scene when our eldest daughter was just seven months old. It was a paper punch out scene but it was just as wondrous as the china scene that we now have with the wooden stable.
God bless.
Wednesday, December 23, 2015
Unknown Taylor
52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 52
Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton,
Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown),
Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham,
unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, unknown, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown
The last of the 52 Ancestor Challenges and I end it with the grandfather of my great grandmother Ellen Taylor. If Ellen was legitimate (I actually have no reason to think otherwise but for sake of covering all the Ellen Taylor registrations than I do say this) than her grandfather would have likely been unknown Taylor. I know very very little about this family in Birmingham. A vague memory as a child of my grandmother saying that her grandfather was a shoemaker. A Thomas Taylor married to Ellen Roberts does fit that description.
Over time I have purchased all the birth registrations for Ellen Taylor born in Birmingham between 1859 and 1862 because my grandmother said that her mother was 37 years old when she died of pneumonia. That death registration I do have and it does state that she was 37 years of age when she died 27 February 1897. What that means to me is that she was born between 28 February 1859 and 27 February 1860. If she had died on her birthday I am rather sure my grandmother would have mentioned that as she was just 11 when her mother died and she always spoke of the tragedy of that loss. Ellen Taylor, daughter of Thomas Taylor and Ellen Roberts was born 9 Oct 1859 at Birmingham. That would make her 37 years 4 months and 18 days old when she died 17 February 1897 if indeed Ellen Taylor, my great grandmother, was the daughter of Thomas Taylor and Ellen Roberts. The suggestion has been made to me that I should try to find her siblings which I have tried to do. Thomas and Ellen Taylor moved away from Birmingham around 1870 to Ashton under Lyne in Lancashire although Ellen and some of the children (including Ellen) are found with her on the 1871 census in Birmingham. She is listed as a grocer so was perhaps selling off what they had in Birmingham prior to moving to Ashton under Lyne. Missing from the 1881 census the two oldest children named Thomas and Ellen (at Ashton under Lyne). All of the other children mentioned in the 1871 census are living at Ashton under Lyne in 1881. This family has not yet been found in the 1891 or subsequent census.
Thomas Taylor (husband of Ellen Roberts) was baptized 27 Dec 1830 at Birmingham Saint Phillips son of Samuel Taylor and Ann Lewis Harborne and he and Ellen Roberts were married 29 Jun 1857 at Birmingham St Martin (Ellen was only 16 years of age when she married which fits the census and Thomas was 3 and Ellen 1 on the 1861 census).
Samuel Taylor had married Ann Lewis Harborne 3 Aug 1829 at Birmingham Saint Phillips. Samuel is possibly the Samuel baptized 14 Jun 1810 at Birmingham Saint Phillips son of Samuel and Sarah Taylor. This would be my 4x great grandfather but at this point it does not really seem to be a practical thing to do a lot of work on him. I need to first determine the parents of my Ellen Taylor before working backwards in time. Hence I will not list an ancestry for this particular Taylor as too much is unknown to really make that worthwhile. So I end my year of 52 Ancestor Challenges with the line about which I know the least amount. For this Taylor line I really do not know anything officially. I do have the occasional Taylor matches on autosomal DNA on all the sites but have not really attempted to do any tracing although do look at trees if they are available. The line going back from my maternal grandmother though is my mtDNA line and that is known to me and quite fortunately is a rather less common grouping of H being H11a2a1. That may eventually help to locate my maternal line which at the moment appears to have its ancient base in the Argyllshire/Ayrshire area of Scotland where it is found on the Blood of the Isles database produced by Bryan Sykes with matches also in Ireland. There is a large group that carries this same haplogroup in the United States and are descendants of Rebecca Martin married to Alexander Peden. Alexander and his wife Rebecca travelled on the James and Mary and were located at Spartanburg as a part of the 1772 migration from County Antrim Ireland to the Carolinas with the Reverend William Martin.
http://boydroots.net/downloads/MartinPassengers.pdf
One of my matches is descendant of this couple. I do not know if Rebecca Martin is related to the Reverend William Martin.
The suggested descendancy of the Peden family.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~marylove/Peden/Peden.html
So ends a rather interesting year looking at my 4x great grandparents. A great deal learned about some of my people; a very worthwhile project.
I will begin next year's project on the first Monday of 2016 and it will be Charles Alexandre Bédard.
The last of the 52 Ancestor Challenges and I end it with the grandfather of my great grandmother Ellen Taylor. If Ellen was legitimate (I actually have no reason to think otherwise but for sake of covering all the Ellen Taylor registrations than I do say this) than her grandfather would have likely been unknown Taylor. I know very very little about this family in Birmingham. A vague memory as a child of my grandmother saying that her grandfather was a shoemaker. A Thomas Taylor married to Ellen Roberts does fit that description.
Over time I have purchased all the birth registrations for Ellen Taylor born in Birmingham between 1859 and 1862 because my grandmother said that her mother was 37 years old when she died of pneumonia. That death registration I do have and it does state that she was 37 years of age when she died 27 February 1897. What that means to me is that she was born between 28 February 1859 and 27 February 1860. If she had died on her birthday I am rather sure my grandmother would have mentioned that as she was just 11 when her mother died and she always spoke of the tragedy of that loss. Ellen Taylor, daughter of Thomas Taylor and Ellen Roberts was born 9 Oct 1859 at Birmingham. That would make her 37 years 4 months and 18 days old when she died 17 February 1897 if indeed Ellen Taylor, my great grandmother, was the daughter of Thomas Taylor and Ellen Roberts. The suggestion has been made to me that I should try to find her siblings which I have tried to do. Thomas and Ellen Taylor moved away from Birmingham around 1870 to Ashton under Lyne in Lancashire although Ellen and some of the children (including Ellen) are found with her on the 1871 census in Birmingham. She is listed as a grocer so was perhaps selling off what they had in Birmingham prior to moving to Ashton under Lyne. Missing from the 1881 census the two oldest children named Thomas and Ellen (at Ashton under Lyne). All of the other children mentioned in the 1871 census are living at Ashton under Lyne in 1881. This family has not yet been found in the 1891 or subsequent census.
Thomas Taylor (husband of Ellen Roberts) was baptized 27 Dec 1830 at Birmingham Saint Phillips son of Samuel Taylor and Ann Lewis Harborne and he and Ellen Roberts were married 29 Jun 1857 at Birmingham St Martin (Ellen was only 16 years of age when she married which fits the census and Thomas was 3 and Ellen 1 on the 1861 census).
Samuel Taylor had married Ann Lewis Harborne 3 Aug 1829 at Birmingham Saint Phillips. Samuel is possibly the Samuel baptized 14 Jun 1810 at Birmingham Saint Phillips son of Samuel and Sarah Taylor. This would be my 4x great grandfather but at this point it does not really seem to be a practical thing to do a lot of work on him. I need to first determine the parents of my Ellen Taylor before working backwards in time. Hence I will not list an ancestry for this particular Taylor as too much is unknown to really make that worthwhile. So I end my year of 52 Ancestor Challenges with the line about which I know the least amount. For this Taylor line I really do not know anything officially. I do have the occasional Taylor matches on autosomal DNA on all the sites but have not really attempted to do any tracing although do look at trees if they are available. The line going back from my maternal grandmother though is my mtDNA line and that is known to me and quite fortunately is a rather less common grouping of H being H11a2a1. That may eventually help to locate my maternal line which at the moment appears to have its ancient base in the Argyllshire/Ayrshire area of Scotland where it is found on the Blood of the Isles database produced by Bryan Sykes with matches also in Ireland. There is a large group that carries this same haplogroup in the United States and are descendants of Rebecca Martin married to Alexander Peden. Alexander and his wife Rebecca travelled on the James and Mary and were located at Spartanburg as a part of the 1772 migration from County Antrim Ireland to the Carolinas with the Reverend William Martin.
http://boydroots.net/downloads/MartinPassengers.pdf
One of my matches is descendant of this couple. I do not know if Rebecca Martin is related to the Reverend William Martin.
The suggested descendancy of the Peden family.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~marylove/Peden/Peden.html
So ends a rather interesting year looking at my 4x great grandparents. A great deal learned about some of my people; a very worthwhile project.
I will begin next year's project on the first Monday of 2016 and it will be Charles Alexandre Bédard.
Sunday, December 20, 2015
Project
Interestingly enough all these bouts of illness of the last few weeks reminds one that we are, none of us, protected from the effects of disease. My voice is gradually returning but as I was dealing with all of that I suddenly decided to do something that I have mulled about in my mind for absolutely ages. I need to record these thoughts in my living memory to remind me when I did begin and why!
I wanted to record my life as I have lived it. At first I thought I could do that with a purchased book form that I could list all the highlights and events from my birth onwards. That seemed to work for a short while but it really lacked the ability to have lots of pictures (I have lots of pictures as my husband is an avid photographer as was my father at some periods of his life) and stories around those pictures.
It was a project that I saw myself doing later; always later. Suddenly I began to think that 70 is probably later and that I should begin. Consequently the last couple of weeks in my spare time, instead of working on the Cornwall Census for the Blake family, I have been working on my life story. There was something else that inspired that idea as well but that is all in my story and my story is just for my personal family. I want all this information available in case somewhere in the future someone wonders about Great Grand Aunt Elizabeth or Great Great Great Grandmother (Blake) Kipp or whatever name I could be called in the future. As I have peered back into the past that is what is most missing from the stories of my families. Other than the flat paper records I do not know a lot about the people beyond my great great grandparents except in a few circumstances. My grandfather knew a number of his great grandparents and so I am taken back into the past on those few lines but otherwise just flat paper documents and a few pictures tell me about many of them.
Now after a couple of weeks I have 184 pages of pictures and story that brings me from my birth in 1945 to 1984 when my father celebrated his 80th birthday and we were altogether celebrating his 80 years on this earth. Included with this will be chapters that take me back in time so that I can record everything that I know about my father and my mother and then my grandparents as I know them and even my great grandparents that my parents and grandparents talked about. A few times I will get to go further back and tell those stories. The modern age permits us to document our lives in ways that were not even possible when I was born. It was that collection of pictures of me that inspired me to do the work along with a desire to writeup my thoughts through my life and how they changed from childhood to young adulthood to motherhood and beyond.
I have begun my father's chapter already when I couldn't find this particular set of pictures mentioned on my husband's index but missing from the scans. He found them and I am back once again to my story but as I worked away on my Dad's story I realized that this might be the most important writing that I do for future generations of my parents. Three or four generations down and looking back at Ernest Blake and Helen Pincombe as their ancestors what would they know about them. Their stories need to be told so that they are not forgotten. The time that my mother, a Ranger in the Guilding Movement and a Cub leader, was out on the Thames River helping people who were stranded during the flooding in the 30s. My father who was Chief Scout and very involved in the Scouting Movement in the 20s and 30s. So many things to write down so that I breathe life into these people so that they can be seen by their descendants generations later.
I think my mother used to think about doing that and I was in the process of acquiring a computer for her when she passed away. Much was lost with my mother's death as she knew a great deal about her families. Some of it was written down when my husband prepared a 50th Wedding Anniversary Book for my parents. Although I did go to the LDS to collect information it was my husband really who guided that book to its completion. It too has been a great help in working on my family nearly 20 years later when the genealogy bug finally caught up with me. But I regret that it did not occur to me sooner to give my mother the ability to record her stories in her lifetime. The same could be said of my father as well as he too was quite knowledgeable on his family. Coming to Canada as a child of nine meant leaving behind all those loving grandparents, aunts and uncles and he had a lot of them. Sometimes he would talk about dancing around the maypole in Upper Clatford on May Day when he was a child but I think it brought back memories that were sad because he left.
Lots of good memories replaced that sadness but thinking back on my grandfather dying when I was eight that too was a turning point for me in life as I truly missed him; I missed his stories and the time that he spent with me.
I think I can get back to working on the Blake and Pincombe families one name studies but will need to find a pace that works for me.
I wanted to record my life as I have lived it. At first I thought I could do that with a purchased book form that I could list all the highlights and events from my birth onwards. That seemed to work for a short while but it really lacked the ability to have lots of pictures (I have lots of pictures as my husband is an avid photographer as was my father at some periods of his life) and stories around those pictures.
It was a project that I saw myself doing later; always later. Suddenly I began to think that 70 is probably later and that I should begin. Consequently the last couple of weeks in my spare time, instead of working on the Cornwall Census for the Blake family, I have been working on my life story. There was something else that inspired that idea as well but that is all in my story and my story is just for my personal family. I want all this information available in case somewhere in the future someone wonders about Great Grand Aunt Elizabeth or Great Great Great Grandmother (Blake) Kipp or whatever name I could be called in the future. As I have peered back into the past that is what is most missing from the stories of my families. Other than the flat paper records I do not know a lot about the people beyond my great great grandparents except in a few circumstances. My grandfather knew a number of his great grandparents and so I am taken back into the past on those few lines but otherwise just flat paper documents and a few pictures tell me about many of them.
Now after a couple of weeks I have 184 pages of pictures and story that brings me from my birth in 1945 to 1984 when my father celebrated his 80th birthday and we were altogether celebrating his 80 years on this earth. Included with this will be chapters that take me back in time so that I can record everything that I know about my father and my mother and then my grandparents as I know them and even my great grandparents that my parents and grandparents talked about. A few times I will get to go further back and tell those stories. The modern age permits us to document our lives in ways that were not even possible when I was born. It was that collection of pictures of me that inspired me to do the work along with a desire to writeup my thoughts through my life and how they changed from childhood to young adulthood to motherhood and beyond.
I have begun my father's chapter already when I couldn't find this particular set of pictures mentioned on my husband's index but missing from the scans. He found them and I am back once again to my story but as I worked away on my Dad's story I realized that this might be the most important writing that I do for future generations of my parents. Three or four generations down and looking back at Ernest Blake and Helen Pincombe as their ancestors what would they know about them. Their stories need to be told so that they are not forgotten. The time that my mother, a Ranger in the Guilding Movement and a Cub leader, was out on the Thames River helping people who were stranded during the flooding in the 30s. My father who was Chief Scout and very involved in the Scouting Movement in the 20s and 30s. So many things to write down so that I breathe life into these people so that they can be seen by their descendants generations later.
I think my mother used to think about doing that and I was in the process of acquiring a computer for her when she passed away. Much was lost with my mother's death as she knew a great deal about her families. Some of it was written down when my husband prepared a 50th Wedding Anniversary Book for my parents. Although I did go to the LDS to collect information it was my husband really who guided that book to its completion. It too has been a great help in working on my family nearly 20 years later when the genealogy bug finally caught up with me. But I regret that it did not occur to me sooner to give my mother the ability to record her stories in her lifetime. The same could be said of my father as well as he too was quite knowledgeable on his family. Coming to Canada as a child of nine meant leaving behind all those loving grandparents, aunts and uncles and he had a lot of them. Sometimes he would talk about dancing around the maypole in Upper Clatford on May Day when he was a child but I think it brought back memories that were sad because he left.
Lots of good memories replaced that sadness but thinking back on my grandfather dying when I was eight that too was a turning point for me in life as I truly missed him; I missed his stories and the time that he spent with me.
I think I can get back to working on the Blake and Pincombe families one name studies but will need to find a pace that works for me.
Thursday, December 17, 2015
The ARNOLD family of Milton Abbas, Dorset
A flurry of emails back and forth discussing the Arnold family at Milton Abbas between myself and Jill Morley who has been collecting Arnold material for over 30 years. She runs an active Facebook group on the Arnold family.
Likely Jill and I are related but she is unable to find earlier material on her direct line.
My Arnold line has fallen neatly into place back into the 1600s at Milton Abbas but I am stuck there with James Arnold married to Sibyl unknown. Sibyl was buried at Milton Abbas 28 Jul 1673. This couple baptized six children at Milton Abbas.
Henry baptized 4 Jan 1651
Mary baptized 12 Sep 1654
unmamed baptized 18 Nov 1657; buried 19 Nov 1657
Ann baptized 27 Mar 1661
James baptized 4 Oct 1663 (married Mary Hardy 1 Nov 1694 at Milton Abbas)
John baptized 4 Oct 1663 (married Melionor Leave 17 Oct 1692 at Milton Abbas)
These two younger sons trace their line down at Milton Abbas with my line being James Arnold married to Mary Hardy. They baptized six children at Milton Abbas.
Mary baptized 8 Mar 1694
James baptized 25 Feb 1697 (married Honor Lovell 26 Jun 1721 at MIlton Abbas)
John baptized 21 Apr 1702 (married Susannah (unknown) circa 1725)
Ann baptized 19 Oct 1704 (married Peter Hause)
Jane baptized 13 Apr 1712; buried 18 Aug 1712 at Milton Abbas
Jinny (Jane) baptized 4 Mar 1714
MA/4 1742 = this is the will of James ARNOLD of Milton Abbas dated 25 June 1742 Proved 8 August 1743 Mentions Wife: Mary ARNOLD Son: John ARNOLD Daughter: Mary wife of William Lovell Daughter: Ann wife of Peter House. Daughter: Jinny Appoints wife Mary as Executor
MA/3 1744 = this is the will of Mary ARNOLD (wife of the above) of Milton Abbas Mentions: son John ARNOLD Daughter: Mary wife of William Lovell Daughter: Ann wife of Peter House Grand daughter: Honor Daughter: Jinny executor
http://www.dorset-opc.com/Miscellaneous/ArnoldWills.htm
My ancestor was John Arnold married to Susannah and they baptized seven children at Milton Abbas.
John baptized 4 Aug 1725 (married to Hannah Norris 7 Jul 1751 at Milton Abbas)
James baptized 1 Feb 1726
Jane baptized 29 Jan 1728
Mary born circa 1730 at MIlton Abbas
William baptized 26 Jan 1732 (married to Ann Riggs 4 May 1755 at Cheselbourne)
Susannah baptized 19 Mar 1734
Thomas baptized 21 May 1737
My line is John Arnold married to Hannah Norris and they baptized eight children at Milton Abbas.
Mary baptized 8 Apr 1752 (married to Stephen Elford 27 Apr 1780 at Milton Abbas)
John baptized 17 Mar 1754
Jane baptized 20 Oct 1756
Joseph baptized 24 Oct 1759 (married to Susanna Best 18 Jul 1781)
Hannah baptized 18 Aug 1762 (married to John Hooper 21 Mar 1791 at Milton Abbas)
Susannah baptized 2 Oct 1765
William baptized 21 Feb 1770 (married to Elizabeth Molton 30 Aug 1793 at Milton Abbas)
Ann born circa 1773 at Milton Abbas (married James Vacher 26 Jul 1796 at MIlton Abbas)
My line is William Arnold married to Elizabeth Molton and they baptized six children at Winterborne Whitchurch and three or four children at Winterborne Clenstone
Thyrsa baptized 25 Mar 1791 (married Robert Tuffin 3 May 1814 at Winterborne Stickland)
Abel baptized 11 Mar 1792 (married Mary Lewis 6 Feb 1816 at Winterborne Clenstone)
Charles baptized 1 Dec 1793
Hannah baptized 18 Jan 1795 (married Charles Butt 26 Dec 1820 at Winterborne Clenstone)
Jane baptized 10 Jul 1796
Mark baptized 25 Mar 1798
Sarah baptized 15 Sep 1799 (married Joseph Butt 7 Jun 1824 at Winterborne Clenstone)
Elim baptized 11 Jan 1801 (married Mary Ann Cuff 24 Apr 1821 at Winterborne Whitchurch)
Ann baptized 8 May 1802
Mark baptized 15 Jul 1821 at Winterborne Clenstone (married Emma Hook)
This last baptism was said to be the son of William and Elizabeth Arnold but it is 19 years after the baptism of Ann. Not impossible Elizabeth would have been 55 years of age.
My line continues down from Charles Butt and Hannah Arnold. They baptized seven children at Winterborne Stickland.
Thurza baptized 11 Mar 1821 (married Thomas Knight 10 Nov 1844 at Turnworth)
Abel baptized 15 Feb 1823 (married Martha Knight 8 Feb 1850 at Turnworth)
Josiah baptized 15 Jan 1826; buried 24 Jan 1826 at Winterborne Stickland
Louisa baptized 27 Jan 1827 (married Samuel Knight 7 Sep 1849 at Winterborne Stickland)
John born circa 1830 at Winterborne Stickland (married Jane Gumbleton 13 Apr 1857 at Winterborne Stickland)
Arthur baptized 5 Jan 1834 (married Jane Cross sep quarter 1853 in Blandford RD)
Nehemiah baptized 15 May 1836
Samuel Knight and Louisa Butt are my ancestors. Interesting that three Knight siblings married three Butt siblings. Samuel and Louisa baptized eleven children at Turnworth including their eldest Maria Jane.
Maria Jane baptized 27 Jan 1850 (married Edward Blake 29 Oct 1870 at Upper Clatford)
This couple were my great grandparents and their son Samuel George Blake my grandfather. I have traced these lines down and only my grandfather and his younger brother Henry came to Canada with the rest of the family remaining in England. This family has kept in contact into the 2000s with my husband and I visiting the grandchildren of the youngest son of Edward Blake and Maria Jane Knight in 2008.
I did know from childhood that Charles Butt had married Hannah Arnold and that this family lived in the Winterborne area of Dorset. Going back from Hannah involved research on my part along with a cousin of mine Robert Arnold.
Likely Jill and I are related but she is unable to find earlier material on her direct line.
My Arnold line has fallen neatly into place back into the 1600s at Milton Abbas but I am stuck there with James Arnold married to Sibyl unknown. Sibyl was buried at Milton Abbas 28 Jul 1673. This couple baptized six children at Milton Abbas.
Henry baptized 4 Jan 1651
Mary baptized 12 Sep 1654
unmamed baptized 18 Nov 1657; buried 19 Nov 1657
Ann baptized 27 Mar 1661
James baptized 4 Oct 1663 (married Mary Hardy 1 Nov 1694 at Milton Abbas)
John baptized 4 Oct 1663 (married Melionor Leave 17 Oct 1692 at Milton Abbas)
These two younger sons trace their line down at Milton Abbas with my line being James Arnold married to Mary Hardy. They baptized six children at Milton Abbas.
Mary baptized 8 Mar 1694
James baptized 25 Feb 1697 (married Honor Lovell 26 Jun 1721 at MIlton Abbas)
John baptized 21 Apr 1702 (married Susannah (unknown) circa 1725)
Ann baptized 19 Oct 1704 (married Peter Hause)
Jane baptized 13 Apr 1712; buried 18 Aug 1712 at Milton Abbas
Jinny (Jane) baptized 4 Mar 1714
MA/4 1742 = this is the will of James ARNOLD of Milton Abbas dated 25 June 1742 Proved 8 August 1743 Mentions Wife: Mary ARNOLD Son: John ARNOLD Daughter: Mary wife of William Lovell Daughter: Ann wife of Peter House. Daughter: Jinny Appoints wife Mary as Executor
MA/3 1744 = this is the will of Mary ARNOLD (wife of the above) of Milton Abbas Mentions: son John ARNOLD Daughter: Mary wife of William Lovell Daughter: Ann wife of Peter House Grand daughter: Honor Daughter: Jinny executor
http://www.dorset-opc.com/Miscellaneous/ArnoldWills.htm
My ancestor was John Arnold married to Susannah and they baptized seven children at Milton Abbas.
John baptized 4 Aug 1725 (married to Hannah Norris 7 Jul 1751 at Milton Abbas)
James baptized 1 Feb 1726
Jane baptized 29 Jan 1728
Mary born circa 1730 at MIlton Abbas
William baptized 26 Jan 1732 (married to Ann Riggs 4 May 1755 at Cheselbourne)
Susannah baptized 19 Mar 1734
Thomas baptized 21 May 1737
My line is John Arnold married to Hannah Norris and they baptized eight children at Milton Abbas.
Mary baptized 8 Apr 1752 (married to Stephen Elford 27 Apr 1780 at Milton Abbas)
John baptized 17 Mar 1754
Jane baptized 20 Oct 1756
Joseph baptized 24 Oct 1759 (married to Susanna Best 18 Jul 1781)
Hannah baptized 18 Aug 1762 (married to John Hooper 21 Mar 1791 at Milton Abbas)
Susannah baptized 2 Oct 1765
William baptized 21 Feb 1770 (married to Elizabeth Molton 30 Aug 1793 at Milton Abbas)
Ann born circa 1773 at Milton Abbas (married James Vacher 26 Jul 1796 at MIlton Abbas)
My line is William Arnold married to Elizabeth Molton and they baptized six children at Winterborne Whitchurch and three or four children at Winterborne Clenstone
Thyrsa baptized 25 Mar 1791 (married Robert Tuffin 3 May 1814 at Winterborne Stickland)
Abel baptized 11 Mar 1792 (married Mary Lewis 6 Feb 1816 at Winterborne Clenstone)
Charles baptized 1 Dec 1793
Hannah baptized 18 Jan 1795 (married Charles Butt 26 Dec 1820 at Winterborne Clenstone)
Jane baptized 10 Jul 1796
Mark baptized 25 Mar 1798
Sarah baptized 15 Sep 1799 (married Joseph Butt 7 Jun 1824 at Winterborne Clenstone)
Elim baptized 11 Jan 1801 (married Mary Ann Cuff 24 Apr 1821 at Winterborne Whitchurch)
Ann baptized 8 May 1802
Mark baptized 15 Jul 1821 at Winterborne Clenstone (married Emma Hook)
This last baptism was said to be the son of William and Elizabeth Arnold but it is 19 years after the baptism of Ann. Not impossible Elizabeth would have been 55 years of age.
My line continues down from Charles Butt and Hannah Arnold. They baptized seven children at Winterborne Stickland.
Thurza baptized 11 Mar 1821 (married Thomas Knight 10 Nov 1844 at Turnworth)
Abel baptized 15 Feb 1823 (married Martha Knight 8 Feb 1850 at Turnworth)
Josiah baptized 15 Jan 1826; buried 24 Jan 1826 at Winterborne Stickland
Louisa baptized 27 Jan 1827 (married Samuel Knight 7 Sep 1849 at Winterborne Stickland)
John born circa 1830 at Winterborne Stickland (married Jane Gumbleton 13 Apr 1857 at Winterborne Stickland)
Arthur baptized 5 Jan 1834 (married Jane Cross sep quarter 1853 in Blandford RD)
Nehemiah baptized 15 May 1836
Samuel Knight and Louisa Butt are my ancestors. Interesting that three Knight siblings married three Butt siblings. Samuel and Louisa baptized eleven children at Turnworth including their eldest Maria Jane.
Maria Jane baptized 27 Jan 1850 (married Edward Blake 29 Oct 1870 at Upper Clatford)
This couple were my great grandparents and their son Samuel George Blake my grandfather. I have traced these lines down and only my grandfather and his younger brother Henry came to Canada with the rest of the family remaining in England. This family has kept in contact into the 2000s with my husband and I visiting the grandchildren of the youngest son of Edward Blake and Maria Jane Knight in 2008.
I did know from childhood that Charles Butt had married Hannah Arnold and that this family lived in the Winterborne area of Dorset. Going back from Hannah involved research on my part along with a cousin of mine Robert Arnold.
Sarah, unknown wife of William Cheatle
52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 51
Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton,
Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown),
Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham,
unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, unknown, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown
Initially this blog was titled Sarah Woodcock the wife of William Cheatle and they married at Castle Donnington and all of their children (known to me) were baptized there. However, the apprenticeship records show that William continued as a Master Taylor at Castle Donnington past 1795 so this two are not the parents of my Sarah Cheatle. Hence the new title "Sarah, unknown wife of William Cheatle." I do know that my Sarah Cheatle (wife of William Welch, mother of Ann Welch married to Henry Christopher Buller and my 2x great grandparents) was likely the Sarah Cheatle baptized at Ashby de la Zouch in 1795 daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle. There the mystery begins as I am unable to locate further information on this couple (my 4x great grandparents).
That her name was Sarah is revealed by the baptismal record. Also Sarah (Cheatle) Welch names one of her daughters Sarah. Ann (Sarah's daughter) names one of her daughters Sarah. Edwin Denner Buller names one of his daughters Sarah. Coincidence, I have no idea really but Edwin is found on the 1861 census with his grandmother Sarah (Cheatle) Welch who was by then widowed. Occasionally my grandmother did speak about her father's family but not a great deal. Little items, her father served in the military and that record was finally found (he served in the socalled First Boer War). He had a leg injury and the records bear this out.
But what of Sarah wife of William Cheatle? That is still hidden from me and will probably remain that way until my access to the Leicestershire Parish Records improves. I have read through the Ashby de la Zouch records from the mid 1700s to the early 1800s. I think they must be from somewhere else coming to Ashby de la Zouch for whatever reason. Further access to records may help with placing William and Sarah Cheatle parents of Sarah Cheatle married to William Welch.
Ancestry of Sarah unknown:
1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township, Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada
3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
6. Sarah CHEATLE (b 27 Jan 1795) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
7. Sarah
Initially this blog was titled Sarah Woodcock the wife of William Cheatle and they married at Castle Donnington and all of their children (known to me) were baptized there. However, the apprenticeship records show that William continued as a Master Taylor at Castle Donnington past 1795 so this two are not the parents of my Sarah Cheatle. Hence the new title "Sarah, unknown wife of William Cheatle." I do know that my Sarah Cheatle (wife of William Welch, mother of Ann Welch married to Henry Christopher Buller and my 2x great grandparents) was likely the Sarah Cheatle baptized at Ashby de la Zouch in 1795 daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle. There the mystery begins as I am unable to locate further information on this couple (my 4x great grandparents).
That her name was Sarah is revealed by the baptismal record. Also Sarah (Cheatle) Welch names one of her daughters Sarah. Ann (Sarah's daughter) names one of her daughters Sarah. Edwin Denner Buller names one of his daughters Sarah. Coincidence, I have no idea really but Edwin is found on the 1861 census with his grandmother Sarah (Cheatle) Welch who was by then widowed. Occasionally my grandmother did speak about her father's family but not a great deal. Little items, her father served in the military and that record was finally found (he served in the socalled First Boer War). He had a leg injury and the records bear this out.
But what of Sarah wife of William Cheatle? That is still hidden from me and will probably remain that way until my access to the Leicestershire Parish Records improves. I have read through the Ashby de la Zouch records from the mid 1700s to the early 1800s. I think they must be from somewhere else coming to Ashby de la Zouch for whatever reason. Further access to records may help with placing William and Sarah Cheatle parents of Sarah Cheatle married to William Welch.
Ancestry of Sarah unknown:
1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township, Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada
3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
6. Sarah CHEATLE (b 27 Jan 1795) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
7. Sarah
Saturday, December 12, 2015
William Cheatle
52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 50
Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton,
Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown),
Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham,
unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, unknown, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown
Reaching the last three of my 52 Ancestor Challenge, I know that what I write on these three individuals is more tentative than anything I have written on the first 49.
William Cheatle is the name that appears on the marriage registration of Sarah Cheatle and William Welch as a witness. Sarah Cheatle and William Welch both sign the marriage registration with their own hand as does William Cheatle. The surname Cheatle is fortunately a rather unusual one found commonly in this time period in Leicestershire.
Sarah Welch does appear on the census of 1841, 1851, 1861, and 1871.
Information given for Sarah on these census:
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1841. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick County, Birmingham RD, St. Phillip, Class: HO107; Piece 1146; Book: 2; Enumeration District: 5; Folio: 25; Page: 5; Line: 11; William Welch household, GSU roll: 464182.
Wm Walch Age: 45 Estimated birth year: abt 1796 Gender: Male Civil parish: Birmingham Hundred: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Phillip. Household Members:
Name Age Hary Walch 15 John Walch 15 Mary Walch 20 Sarah Walch 40 Wm Walch 45
Lower Temple St,1,Wm Walch,45,,Cook Shop,Not in county,
,,Sarah Walch,,40,,Not in county,
,,Mary Walch,,20,,Not in county,
,,John Walch,15,,Appren,Not in county,
,,Hery Walch,15,,Appren,WAR,
,,Ann Buller,,20,,Not in county,
,,Hery Buller,2,,,WAR,
,,Hery Cooper,50,,Male Servant,Not in county,
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1851. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick county, Birmingham RD, Birmingham, Class: HO107; Piece: 2055; Folio: 342; Page: 20; Household Schedule 61, William Welch family, GSU roll: 87314. William Welch Age:57 Estimated birth year:abt 1794 Relation:Head Spouse's name:Sarah (born at Ashby de la Zouch abt 1796) Gender:Male Where born:Rugley, Staffordshire, England Civil parish:Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish:St Philip County/Island:Warwickshire Country:England Registration district:Birmingham Sub-registration district:St Philip ED, institution, or vessel:14 Household schedule number:61 Household Members:Name AgeHenry Buckton 38 Mary A Roden 19 Hannah Tomlinson 21 Henry Welch 24 Sarah Welch 55 William Welch 57
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1861. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick county, Aston RD, St Silas, Class: RG9; Piece: 2182; Folio: 46; Page: 40; Household Schedule 175, Sarah Welch family, GSU roll: 542931. Sarah Welch Age:65 Estimated birth year:abt 1796 Relation:Head Gender:Female Where born:Ashby De La Zouch, Leicestershire, England Civil parish:Aston Ecclesiastical parish:St Silas County/Island:Warwickshire Country:England Registration district:Aston Sub-registration district:Erdington ED, institution, or vessel:2 Household schedule number:175 Household Members:Name AgeEdward D Buller 11 Ellen Buller 8 Sarah Welch 65
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1871. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick County, Aston RD, St Silas Town, Class: RG10; Piece: 3154; Folio: 58; Page: 9; Household Schedule 44, Sarah Welch family, GSU roll: 839234.
Sarah Welsh Age: 75 Estimated birth year: abt 1796 Relation: Head Mother's name: Ann Gender: Female Where born: Alford, Leicestershire, England Civil parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas Town: Aston Manor County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration district: Aston Sub-registration district: Erdington ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household schedule number: 44 Household Members:
Name Age Ann Buller 25 Ann Buller 57 Clemonent Buller 14 Ellen Buller 17 Louisa Buller 12 Sarah Welsh 75 Sarah Welsh abt 1796 Alford, Leicestershire, England Head Aston Warwickshire Ann Buller abt 1814 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Mother Aston Warwickshire
Ann Buller abt 1846 India, Middlesex, England Granddaughter Aston Warwickshire
Clemonent Buller abt 1857 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Grandson Aston Warwickshire
Ellen Buller abt 1854 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Granddaughter Aston Warwickshire
Louisa Buller abt 1859 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Granddaughter Aston Warwickshire
Sarah Cheatle is said to be born at Ashby de la Zouch on the 1851 and 1861 census. The 1841 has her not born in Warwickshire. The 1871 census has her born at Alford according to the transcription but it doesn't actually look like that on the original census. It ends with ford but the letters preceeding that look more like Longford which is the place of birth of her daugher Ann (Welch) Buller. Ann is recorded as being born in Birmingham which is incorrect.
I have recorded previously the information which I found in the Ashby de la Zouch records for the Cheatle family in this time period:
Baptisms
27 Jun 1785 Benjamin son of Benjamin Cheatle baptized
16 Apr 1787 Richard son of Benjamin and Mary Cheatle baptized
30 Sep 1789 Sarah Cheatle daughter of William and Ann Cheatle
27 Sep 1790 Ann Cheatle daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
19 Sep 1790 John Cheatle son of Benjamin and Catherine baptized
15 Jun 1790 Simeon son of George and Ann Cheatle baptized
27 Dec 1791 Joseph son of Benjamin and Catherine Cheatle baptized
8 Apr 1793 William son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
17 June 1794 James son of Benjamin and Mary Cheatle baptized
10 Nov 1793 Sarah daughter of Benjamin and Catherine Cheatle baptized
24 Jun 1794 Mary daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
27 Jan 1795 Sarah baptized daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle
9 June 1802 William, Elizabeth and Frances son and daughters of William and Ann Cheatle baptized
28 Mar 1804 Catherine daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
21 Sep 1804 Catharine daughter of Benjamin and Catharine Cheatle baptized
Marriages
6 March 1786 William Cheatle and Elizabeth Sherwin both of this parish by banns
28 April 1788 Benjamin Cheatle and Katherine Adams both of this parish by banns
12 Apr 1792 Joseph Cheatle and Elizabeth Hefford both of this parish by banns
Burials
28 Aug 1781 Sarah Cheatle buried
11 April 1790 Ann Cheatle buried
31 May 1793 Sarah Cheatle buried
7 June 1793 John Cheatle buried
1803 Joseph Cheatle buried
30 Dec 1804 Catherine Cheatle buried
8 Oct 1805 Elizabeth Cheatle buried
7 Feb 1807 Thomas Cheatle buried
20 Apr 1808 Ann Chettle buried
15 Mar 1808 Catharine Cheatle buried
11 Sep 1810 Benjamin Cheatle buried
28 Nov 1818 Elizabeth Cheatle buried 55 years
1818 Mary Cheatle buried 24 years
There are three baptisms for Sarah Cheatle at Ashby de la Zouch that could be considered possibilities. Although the one baptism in 1789 seems rather too old to be considered (six years older than stated). Sarah lives until 1872 when she is said to be 78 years of age giving her a year of birth of 1794. Sarah's death registration gives her a date of death of 26 Jul 1872 and if she was baptized 27 Jan 1795 then she would have been 77 years of age and in her 78th year. If baptized 10 Nov 1793 then 26 Jul 1872 she would have been 79 years of age.
One of the witnesses on the marriage registration was William Cheatle. Sarah at her marriage to William Cheatle 24 Aug 1818 would have been 23 years of age if born in 1795. All of the census have her born circa 1796. Two out of four have her born at Ashby de la Zouch. There isn't a marriage at Ashby de la Zouch for William and Sarah Cheatle.
I then investigated marriages in the area around Ashby de la Zouch for William Cheatle and Sarah (unknown). At the time I was doing this investigation eight years ago Find My Past was in its infancy but now searching on this database I am finding:
William Cheatle 21 (b c 1754) a widower married 11 Aug 1775 at Sutton Coldfield (his home parish was Loughborough Leicestershire) and Sarah Bonell 21 years of age and a widow of Sutton Coldfield Warwickshire.
William Cheatle married Sarah Woodcock at Castle Donnington 23 Feb 1773. Apprenticeship records show that this William (or another William Cheatle) is a master tailor at Castle Donnington (1775, 1776, 1778, 1794). The question is does this eliminate this couple as the parents of Sarah finding that he is still a master tailor at Castle Donnington in 1794? How likely was he to have moved? Plus the Sarah Cheatle buried at Ashby de la Zouch in 1793 is not likely to be their daughter Sarah which was my thinking pattern towards the possibility of their baptizing a second daughter Sarah at Ashby de la Zouch. I rather think that this pattern of thought ends with this new data.
What of the William Cheatle of Loughborough marrying Sarah Bonell in 1775? They would then have been in their 40s when Sarah was baptized in 1795 at Ashby de la Zouch. Cheatle is a very uncommon name and not finding a solution to William and Sarah baptizing a daughter Sarah in 1795 leaves me with a very solid brickwall for this family. Autosomal DNA has also been brought into play as I have an autosomal match with the Adcock family of Leicestershire and there was a William Cheatle baptized 7 Jan 1752 at All Saints Loughborough likely the son of William Cheatle and Elizabeth Adcock. Interestingly enough there is a William Cheatle marrying Sarah Bonell and he was of Loughborough. Is this the correct person as father of Sarah? He has possible features - married to Sarah but would they still be having children in the mid 1790s? The autosomal DNA is interesting. I have the parish registers for Loughborough and have not yet investigated them.
William Cheatle married Elizabeth Adcock 29 Mar 1749 at All Saints Loughborough
From the Parish Records for Loughborough:
Sarah daughter of William Cheatle baptized 7 May 1750 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Joseph son of William Cheatle baptized 29 Aug 1751 at Loughborough (father is a taylor)
William son of William Cheatle baptized 7 Jan 1752 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Elizabeth daughter of William Cheatle baptized 27 Feb 1754 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Charles son of William Cheatle buried 6 Jun 1756 at Loughborough
Joseph son of William Cheatle buried 9 Mar 1757 at Loughborough
Frances daughter of William Cheatle baptized 14 Nov 1757 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Hannah Cheatle buried 13 May 1760 at Loughborough
Samuel son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 1 Jun 1762 at Loughborough
Hannah daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 6 May 1764 at Loughborough; buried 16 Mar 1765 at Loughborough`
George son of William Cheatle baptized 15 May 1764 at Loughborough
George son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 24 Jul 1766 at Loughborough
Mary daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 11 Jun 1769 at Loughborough
John son of William Cheatle buried 25 May 1770 at Loughborough
Edward son of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 7 Sep 1772 at Loughborough
Ann daughter of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 18 Sep 1775 at Loughborough
Sarah daughter of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 19 Jul 1778 at Loughborough
Mary daughter of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 3 Dec 1782 at Loughborough , taylor
William Cheatle buried 2 Jun 1773 at Loughborough
George son of William Cheatle deceased buried 28 Jun 1773 at Loughborough
Frances daughter of Widow Cheatle buried 19 Nov 1775 at Loughborough
Sarah daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle baptized 12 Feb 1777 at Loughborough
Sarah daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle buried 5 Mar 1777 at Loughborough
William Cheatle buried 27 Dec 1778 at Loughborough
Sarah wife of William Cheatle buried 17 Dec 1783 at Loughborough
Finding these two burials rather sets that this line does not come down to my Sarah Cheatle baptized at Ashby de la Zouch circa 1795.
I will though continue to check the Loughborough registers between 1793 to 1797 out of curiosity to see if I find a Sarah Cheatle. No sign of a Sarah Cheatle in these parish registers between these dates.
The Leicestershire parish records will be online over the next year or so and that may help to answer my question about the parents of Sarah Cheatle baptized 1795 at Ashby de la Zouch.
The first genealogy conference that I ever attended as a participant was back in 2003 and I remember sitting with my husband at a table for one of the luncheons and someone he knew joined us. This person, one of the speakers I think, said that in 10 to 15 years everything would be online. It is slowly coming to fruition.
Ancestry of William Cheatle possibly:
1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township, Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada
3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Longdon by Lichfield Staffordshire England
6. Sarah CHEATLE (b 27 Jan 1795) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
7. William CHEATLE
Reaching the last three of my 52 Ancestor Challenge, I know that what I write on these three individuals is more tentative than anything I have written on the first 49.
William Cheatle is the name that appears on the marriage registration of Sarah Cheatle and William Welch as a witness. Sarah Cheatle and William Welch both sign the marriage registration with their own hand as does William Cheatle. The surname Cheatle is fortunately a rather unusual one found commonly in this time period in Leicestershire.
Sarah Welch does appear on the census of 1841, 1851, 1861, and 1871.
Information given for Sarah on these census:
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1841. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick County, Birmingham RD, St. Phillip, Class: HO107; Piece 1146; Book: 2; Enumeration District: 5; Folio: 25; Page: 5; Line: 11; William Welch household, GSU roll: 464182.
Wm Walch Age: 45 Estimated birth year: abt 1796 Gender: Male Civil parish: Birmingham Hundred: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Phillip. Household Members:
Name Age Hary Walch 15 John Walch 15 Mary Walch 20 Sarah Walch 40 Wm Walch 45
Lower Temple St,1,Wm Walch,45,,Cook Shop,Not in county,
,,Sarah Walch,,40,,Not in county,
,,Mary Walch,,20,,Not in county,
,,John Walch,15,,Appren,Not in county,
,,Hery Walch,15,,Appren,WAR,
,,Ann Buller,,20,,Not in county,
,,Hery Buller,2,,,WAR,
,,Hery Cooper,50,,Male Servant,Not in county,
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1851. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick county, Birmingham RD, Birmingham, Class: HO107; Piece: 2055; Folio: 342; Page: 20; Household Schedule 61, William Welch family, GSU roll: 87314. William Welch Age:57 Estimated birth year:abt 1794 Relation:Head Spouse's name:Sarah (born at Ashby de la Zouch abt 1796) Gender:Male Where born:Rugley, Staffordshire, England Civil parish:Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish:St Philip County/Island:Warwickshire Country:England Registration district:Birmingham Sub-registration district:St Philip ED, institution, or vessel:14 Household schedule number:61 Household Members:Name AgeHenry Buckton 38 Mary A Roden 19 Hannah Tomlinson 21 Henry Welch 24 Sarah Welch 55 William Welch 57
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1861. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick county, Aston RD, St Silas, Class: RG9; Piece: 2182; Folio: 46; Page: 40; Household Schedule 175, Sarah Welch family, GSU roll: 542931. Sarah Welch Age:65 Estimated birth year:abt 1796 Relation:Head Gender:Female Where born:Ashby De La Zouch, Leicestershire, England Civil parish:Aston Ecclesiastical parish:St Silas County/Island:Warwickshire Country:England Registration district:Aston Sub-registration district:Erdington ED, institution, or vessel:2 Household schedule number:175 Household Members:Name AgeEdward D Buller 11 Ellen Buller 8 Sarah Welch 65
Census Returns of England and Wales, 1871. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK, Warwick County, Aston RD, St Silas Town, Class: RG10; Piece: 3154; Folio: 58; Page: 9; Household Schedule 44, Sarah Welch family, GSU roll: 839234.
Sarah Welsh Age: 75 Estimated birth year: abt 1796 Relation: Head Mother's name: Ann Gender: Female Where born: Alford, Leicestershire, England Civil parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas Town: Aston Manor County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration district: Aston Sub-registration district: Erdington ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household schedule number: 44 Household Members:
Name Age Ann Buller 25 Ann Buller 57 Clemonent Buller 14 Ellen Buller 17 Louisa Buller 12 Sarah Welsh 75 Sarah Welsh abt 1796 Alford, Leicestershire, England Head Aston Warwickshire Ann Buller abt 1814 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Mother Aston Warwickshire
Ann Buller abt 1846 India, Middlesex, England Granddaughter Aston Warwickshire
Clemonent Buller abt 1857 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Grandson Aston Warwickshire
Ellen Buller abt 1854 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Granddaughter Aston Warwickshire
Louisa Buller abt 1859 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Granddaughter Aston Warwickshire
Sarah Cheatle is said to be born at Ashby de la Zouch on the 1851 and 1861 census. The 1841 has her not born in Warwickshire. The 1871 census has her born at Alford according to the transcription but it doesn't actually look like that on the original census. It ends with ford but the letters preceeding that look more like Longford which is the place of birth of her daugher Ann (Welch) Buller. Ann is recorded as being born in Birmingham which is incorrect.
I have recorded previously the information which I found in the Ashby de la Zouch records for the Cheatle family in this time period:
Baptisms
27 Jun 1785 Benjamin son of Benjamin Cheatle baptized
16 Apr 1787 Richard son of Benjamin and Mary Cheatle baptized
30 Sep 1789 Sarah Cheatle daughter of William and Ann Cheatle
27 Sep 1790 Ann Cheatle daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
19 Sep 1790 John Cheatle son of Benjamin and Catherine baptized
15 Jun 1790 Simeon son of George and Ann Cheatle baptized
27 Dec 1791 Joseph son of Benjamin and Catherine Cheatle baptized
8 Apr 1793 William son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
17 June 1794 James son of Benjamin and Mary Cheatle baptized
10 Nov 1793 Sarah daughter of Benjamin and Catherine Cheatle baptized
24 Jun 1794 Mary daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
27 Jan 1795 Sarah baptized daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle
9 June 1802 William, Elizabeth and Frances son and daughters of William and Ann Cheatle baptized
28 Mar 1804 Catherine daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized
21 Sep 1804 Catharine daughter of Benjamin and Catharine Cheatle baptized
Marriages
6 March 1786 William Cheatle and Elizabeth Sherwin both of this parish by banns
28 April 1788 Benjamin Cheatle and Katherine Adams both of this parish by banns
12 Apr 1792 Joseph Cheatle and Elizabeth Hefford both of this parish by banns
Burials
28 Aug 1781 Sarah Cheatle buried
11 April 1790 Ann Cheatle buried
31 May 1793 Sarah Cheatle buried
7 June 1793 John Cheatle buried
1803 Joseph Cheatle buried
30 Dec 1804 Catherine Cheatle buried
8 Oct 1805 Elizabeth Cheatle buried
7 Feb 1807 Thomas Cheatle buried
20 Apr 1808 Ann Chettle buried
15 Mar 1808 Catharine Cheatle buried
11 Sep 1810 Benjamin Cheatle buried
28 Nov 1818 Elizabeth Cheatle buried 55 years
1818 Mary Cheatle buried 24 years
There are three baptisms for Sarah Cheatle at Ashby de la Zouch that could be considered possibilities. Although the one baptism in 1789 seems rather too old to be considered (six years older than stated). Sarah lives until 1872 when she is said to be 78 years of age giving her a year of birth of 1794. Sarah's death registration gives her a date of death of 26 Jul 1872 and if she was baptized 27 Jan 1795 then she would have been 77 years of age and in her 78th year. If baptized 10 Nov 1793 then 26 Jul 1872 she would have been 79 years of age.
One of the witnesses on the marriage registration was William Cheatle. Sarah at her marriage to William Cheatle 24 Aug 1818 would have been 23 years of age if born in 1795. All of the census have her born circa 1796. Two out of four have her born at Ashby de la Zouch. There isn't a marriage at Ashby de la Zouch for William and Sarah Cheatle.
I then investigated marriages in the area around Ashby de la Zouch for William Cheatle and Sarah (unknown). At the time I was doing this investigation eight years ago Find My Past was in its infancy but now searching on this database I am finding:
William Cheatle 21 (b c 1754) a widower married 11 Aug 1775 at Sutton Coldfield (his home parish was Loughborough Leicestershire) and Sarah Bonell 21 years of age and a widow of Sutton Coldfield Warwickshire.
William Cheatle married Sarah Woodcock at Castle Donnington 23 Feb 1773. Apprenticeship records show that this William (or another William Cheatle) is a master tailor at Castle Donnington (1775, 1776, 1778, 1794). The question is does this eliminate this couple as the parents of Sarah finding that he is still a master tailor at Castle Donnington in 1794? How likely was he to have moved? Plus the Sarah Cheatle buried at Ashby de la Zouch in 1793 is not likely to be their daughter Sarah which was my thinking pattern towards the possibility of their baptizing a second daughter Sarah at Ashby de la Zouch. I rather think that this pattern of thought ends with this new data.
What of the William Cheatle of Loughborough marrying Sarah Bonell in 1775? They would then have been in their 40s when Sarah was baptized in 1795 at Ashby de la Zouch. Cheatle is a very uncommon name and not finding a solution to William and Sarah baptizing a daughter Sarah in 1795 leaves me with a very solid brickwall for this family. Autosomal DNA has also been brought into play as I have an autosomal match with the Adcock family of Leicestershire and there was a William Cheatle baptized 7 Jan 1752 at All Saints Loughborough likely the son of William Cheatle and Elizabeth Adcock. Interestingly enough there is a William Cheatle marrying Sarah Bonell and he was of Loughborough. Is this the correct person as father of Sarah? He has possible features - married to Sarah but would they still be having children in the mid 1790s? The autosomal DNA is interesting. I have the parish registers for Loughborough and have not yet investigated them.
William Cheatle married Elizabeth Adcock 29 Mar 1749 at All Saints Loughborough
From the Parish Records for Loughborough:
Sarah daughter of William Cheatle baptized 7 May 1750 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Joseph son of William Cheatle baptized 29 Aug 1751 at Loughborough (father is a taylor)
William son of William Cheatle baptized 7 Jan 1752 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Elizabeth daughter of William Cheatle baptized 27 Feb 1754 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Charles son of William Cheatle buried 6 Jun 1756 at Loughborough
Joseph son of William Cheatle buried 9 Mar 1757 at Loughborough
Frances daughter of William Cheatle baptized 14 Nov 1757 at Loughborough (father is a stockin[g]er)
Hannah Cheatle buried 13 May 1760 at Loughborough
Samuel son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 1 Jun 1762 at Loughborough
Hannah daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 6 May 1764 at Loughborough; buried 16 Mar 1765 at Loughborough`
George son of William Cheatle baptized 15 May 1764 at Loughborough
George son of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 24 Jul 1766 at Loughborough
Mary daughter of William and Elizabeth Cheatle baptized 11 Jun 1769 at Loughborough
John son of William Cheatle buried 25 May 1770 at Loughborough
Edward son of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 7 Sep 1772 at Loughborough
Ann daughter of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 18 Sep 1775 at Loughborough
Sarah daughter of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 19 Jul 1778 at Loughborough
Mary daughter of John and Sarah Cheatle baptized 3 Dec 1782 at Loughborough , taylor
William Cheatle buried 2 Jun 1773 at Loughborough
George son of William Cheatle deceased buried 28 Jun 1773 at Loughborough
Frances daughter of Widow Cheatle buried 19 Nov 1775 at Loughborough
Sarah daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle baptized 12 Feb 1777 at Loughborough
Sarah daughter of William and Sarah Cheatle buried 5 Mar 1777 at Loughborough
William Cheatle buried 27 Dec 1778 at Loughborough
Sarah wife of William Cheatle buried 17 Dec 1783 at Loughborough
Finding these two burials rather sets that this line does not come down to my Sarah Cheatle baptized at Ashby de la Zouch circa 1795.
I will though continue to check the Loughborough registers between 1793 to 1797 out of curiosity to see if I find a Sarah Cheatle. No sign of a Sarah Cheatle in these parish registers between these dates.
The Leicestershire parish records will be online over the next year or so and that may help to answer my question about the parents of Sarah Cheatle baptized 1795 at Ashby de la Zouch.
The first genealogy conference that I ever attended as a participant was back in 2003 and I remember sitting with my husband at a table for one of the luncheons and someone he knew joined us. This person, one of the speakers I think, said that in 10 to 15 years everything would be online. It is slowly coming to fruition.
Ancestry of William Cheatle possibly:
1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township, Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada
3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Longdon by Lichfield Staffordshire England
6. Sarah CHEATLE (b 27 Jan 1795) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
7. William CHEATLE
Thursday, December 10, 2015
Blake Newsletter to come 1 January 2016
I am just starting to compile the Blake Newsletter for the 1 January 2016. It will be Volume 5. This is one item I hope to continue with into the future even though I will at some point in the coming years stop active research on the Blake families other than my own. I hope to bring together a group of Blake researchers however, in the DNA project, who will actively work on their lines and be sources for information for other Blake members seeking to find their ancestral line.
I can not really say based on the DNA results whether you can expect your line in any particular area. Even my own line is most commonly found (by DNA results) in Irelandand my line on paper is going back into the early 1400s at Knights Enham near Andover. R1b is found all over the British Isles and one distinct line is in the Wiltshire/Dorset area going back hundreds of years. It is also found in Ireland with a distinct line showing up for some Galway Blake descendants that have grouped themselves and work actively amongst themselves improving on the knowledge for that line.
Blake though can be found throughout history in the British Isles in a number of areas as land holders, merchants, craftsmen and labourers. Historically Blake has played a large role at many time periods in the British Isles.
I am though noticing the time is passing and I do want to get into some of my own research once again so that I do know that the number of years that I will continue actively researching in lines other than my own is starting to draw to a close.
If anyone has any entries for the next newsletter please do send them on to me at kippeeb@rogers.com. I tend to keep the newsletter to two pages unless I have other copy to put in. I do not mind how long it gets if there is Blake information to add. I could fill it with wills and other documents but I have blogged on a goodly number of them and a quick search on the blog may reveal information to you that would be helpful in your research.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Other than my 52 Ancestor Challenges (three remain to publish) I do not think I will be doing much new blogging in the next few weeks. I must admit to missing my regular life of transciption of wills and writing blogs but time has disappeared and I doubt that I am going to find great amounts of it again in the near future.
I am in the midst of organizing all my material for a couple of projects that will then keep me organized into the future hopefully.
I can not really say based on the DNA results whether you can expect your line in any particular area. Even my own line is most commonly found (by DNA results) in Irelandand my line on paper is going back into the early 1400s at Knights Enham near Andover. R1b is found all over the British Isles and one distinct line is in the Wiltshire/Dorset area going back hundreds of years. It is also found in Ireland with a distinct line showing up for some Galway Blake descendants that have grouped themselves and work actively amongst themselves improving on the knowledge for that line.
Blake though can be found throughout history in the British Isles in a number of areas as land holders, merchants, craftsmen and labourers. Historically Blake has played a large role at many time periods in the British Isles.
I am though noticing the time is passing and I do want to get into some of my own research once again so that I do know that the number of years that I will continue actively researching in lines other than my own is starting to draw to a close.
If anyone has any entries for the next newsletter please do send them on to me at kippeeb@rogers.com. I tend to keep the newsletter to two pages unless I have other copy to put in. I do not mind how long it gets if there is Blake information to add. I could fill it with wills and other documents but I have blogged on a goodly number of them and a quick search on the blog may reveal information to you that would be helpful in your research.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Other than my 52 Ancestor Challenges (three remain to publish) I do not think I will be doing much new blogging in the next few weeks. I must admit to missing my regular life of transciption of wills and writing blogs but time has disappeared and I doubt that I am going to find great amounts of it again in the near future.
I am in the midst of organizing all my material for a couple of projects that will then keep me organized into the future hopefully.
Sunday, December 6, 2015
Cornwall Census and Blake
Working away on the Cornwall Census and it is a slow process. Managed to have two colds in the last month which have rather slowed me down. Until I tested myself at 23 and Me I thought it was just flukey that I acquire colds and flus even though I do take the flu shot but it does turn out that I have no resistance to some diseases but then no one is resistant to the common cold. Without the flu shot I would be returning to the person who used to be sick much more often even.
As this year works its way towards the end both my husband and I are feeling that we should do something different with our days. We still will do genealogy but less of it. We would like to take on something else. I thought about doing English as a Second Language teaching if there is a need with all the refugees about to arrive. My husband has his Ph.D. in Chemistry and his Masters in Library Science so has quite a wide variety of language skills to bring to such teaching. Myself I have worked in a number of places and lots of different vocabulary as well although perhaps mostly slanted towards science. We could team teach and perhaps be helpful to people coming here whose English skills are not as strong as they could be. I think that is what often holds new Canadians from non-English speaking countries back.
Many of the refugee families are quite large and coming from a large family I am comfortable with working with an entire family and I believe Ed would find that interesting as well. We will see what transpires in the New Year.
The Blake yDNA study is slowly growing but needs to be at least four times the size it is now for yDNA before I would even really say much beyond what is on the page now. I am working on a way to display Family Finder Results that retains people's anonymity. Thus far other than my own and my families results no one matches anyone else to any great degree. Although I am keen on the projects it can not just be driven by this small group. A lot of people have to become interested in Blake for it to move forward. I know that what I have published on the Blake family in the 1200s and 1300s has disappointed many people who saw this as a singleton family but I think it is rather simplistic to think that many families will be singleton to be honest.
Cornwall I would like to finish towards the end of the month. I am still considering how I will display this information and I think I will do a descendant chart for each unique line and publish them down to the 1871 census. No idea yet on how many lines that will be in terms of founders since the records do not go back far enough to determine if all the Blake family members are Bodmin are related. Working out from Bodmin though has been quite interesting. I could not do the same working out from Landrake. I suppose I am convinced that the founder of this line is from Breton arriving in Cornwall in the Bodmin area prior to 1525. I know that is a disappointment to at least one person and that has resulted in my rethinking my entire project. I will work on the lines to publish the information that I have found but I will restrict it to prior to 1872 in all cases except for my own personal family line which I have brought further down to the present.
As this year works its way towards the end both my husband and I are feeling that we should do something different with our days. We still will do genealogy but less of it. We would like to take on something else. I thought about doing English as a Second Language teaching if there is a need with all the refugees about to arrive. My husband has his Ph.D. in Chemistry and his Masters in Library Science so has quite a wide variety of language skills to bring to such teaching. Myself I have worked in a number of places and lots of different vocabulary as well although perhaps mostly slanted towards science. We could team teach and perhaps be helpful to people coming here whose English skills are not as strong as they could be. I think that is what often holds new Canadians from non-English speaking countries back.
Many of the refugee families are quite large and coming from a large family I am comfortable with working with an entire family and I believe Ed would find that interesting as well. We will see what transpires in the New Year.
The Blake yDNA study is slowly growing but needs to be at least four times the size it is now for yDNA before I would even really say much beyond what is on the page now. I am working on a way to display Family Finder Results that retains people's anonymity. Thus far other than my own and my families results no one matches anyone else to any great degree. Although I am keen on the projects it can not just be driven by this small group. A lot of people have to become interested in Blake for it to move forward. I know that what I have published on the Blake family in the 1200s and 1300s has disappointed many people who saw this as a singleton family but I think it is rather simplistic to think that many families will be singleton to be honest.
Cornwall I would like to finish towards the end of the month. I am still considering how I will display this information and I think I will do a descendant chart for each unique line and publish them down to the 1871 census. No idea yet on how many lines that will be in terms of founders since the records do not go back far enough to determine if all the Blake family members are Bodmin are related. Working out from Bodmin though has been quite interesting. I could not do the same working out from Landrake. I suppose I am convinced that the founder of this line is from Breton arriving in Cornwall in the Bodmin area prior to 1525. I know that is a disappointment to at least one person and that has resulted in my rethinking my entire project. I will work on the lines to publish the information that I have found but I will restrict it to prior to 1872 in all cases except for my own personal family line which I have brought further down to the present.
Saturday, December 5, 2015
Margaret Brockhouse (1754 - 1837)
52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 49
Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton,
Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown),
Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham,
unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, unknown, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown
A Margaret Brockhouse was baptized 22 Sep 1754 at Rugeley Staffordshire the daughter of Charles Brockhouse and Ann Lea who were themselves married 23 Jan 1748 at Rugeley.
Charles and Ann Brockhouse baptized a number of children at Rugeley:
Charles baptized 8 Jul 1750
Sarah baptized 14 Mar 1752
Margaret baptized 22 Sep 1754 (and I think married to John Welch 16 Feb 1783 at Rugeley)
John baptized 15 May 1757
William baptized 7 Sep 1760
Hannah baptized 7 Feb 1762
Esther baptized 4 May 1766
Joseph baptized 10 Jul 1768
3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
6. William WELCH (b 11 Nov 1792) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
7. Margaret BROCKHOUSE (b 22 Sep 1754) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
8. Charles BROCKHOUSE
A Margaret Brockhouse was baptized 22 Sep 1754 at Rugeley Staffordshire the daughter of Charles Brockhouse and Ann Lea who were themselves married 23 Jan 1748 at Rugeley.
Charles and Ann Brockhouse baptized a number of children at Rugeley:
Charles baptized 8 Jul 1750
Sarah baptized 14 Mar 1752
Margaret baptized 22 Sep 1754 (and I think married to John Welch 16 Feb 1783 at Rugeley)
John baptized 15 May 1757
William baptized 7 Sep 1760
Hannah baptized 7 Feb 1762
Esther baptized 4 May 1766
Joseph baptized 10 Jul 1768
I have mentioned the ancestry of William son of Margaret and John in John Welch's 52 Ancestor Challenge. I would like to look at Charles Brockhouse and Ann Lea to see if I can learn anymore about this couple.
Ann (Lea) Brockhouse was buried 24 Mar 1814 at Rugeley. I do not yet have a burial for Charles Brockhouse. There are three burials on Find My Past at Rugeley for Charles:
Charles Brockhouse buried 31 Oct 1793
Charles son of Charles and Ann Brockhouse buried 23 Jul 1773
Charles Brockhouse buried 20 Jan 1750
The first one is likely this Charles Brockhouse and the next two are sons of Charles and Ann who died young.
But what of Charles baptism and his parents? I do have a Charles Brockhouse baptized at Lichfield son of John Brockhouse 12 Oct 1721. LIchfield is eight miles from Rugeley which does trouble me somewhat. Is this my Charles? Unfortunately his death record does not record his age at death. Looking at the Rugeley records John Brockhouse baptized a daughter Margaret 3 May 1724. When I do a search on Brockhouse and Rugeley I receive 110 hits at Find My Past between 1697 and the 1970s. The location for these records is Lichfield or Rugeley. Brockhouse does not appear to be a common surname and looking at the profile for this surname (listed as a locational name):
frequency in 1881 was 126 and 188 in 1998 with an occurrence of 5 per million.
According to the World profiler it continues to be a West Midlands surname with the top cities in England being Bolton, Birmingham, Dudley, Leeds and Coventry.
Doing a further search on Find My Past there are 46 results for individuals born between 1715 and 1735.This includes all three of the Charles reference mentioned earlier plus the marriage of Charles Brockhouse and Ann Lea 23 Jan 1748 at Rugeley.
I have found four baptisms with John Brockhouse as father earlier:
William baptized 26 Mar 1719 at Lichfield
John baptized 2 Aug 1719 at Lichfield
Charles baptized 12 Oct 1721 at Lichfield
Margaret baptized 3 May 1724 at Rugeley
Does this imply that there are two John Brockhouse baptizing children at Lichfield or simply a late baptism for the eldest child William? Is there a John Brockhouse at Lichfield and a John Brockhouse at Rugeley?
There is a burial of Margaret Brockhouse daughter of John and Sarah Brockhouse 31 Jan 1738. I do not know the name of John Brockhouse's wife in my records and this is a first find for Margaret Brockhouse's burial (the baptism only lists her father).
Looking at Ancestry online trees and most have taken this line back from John Brockhouse with parents Humphrey Brockhouse or Brockhurst married to Elizabeth Rogers 19 May 1657 at Lichfield. The marriage lines definitely read Brockhurst. They did baptize a number of children with some of them being baptized at Aldridge (Aldridge is 8 miles from Lichfield, 12 miles from Rugeley). The online trees appear to manufacture a John as son of this couple as there isn't a place of baptism for this child but there is a date 5 May 1670. Find My Past yields eleven entries for a John Brockhouse and 14 for John Brockhouse with variants on the surname. The three variants are not helpful as they are B. (2 times) and B?Lock. Three of the entries refer to the marriage of John Brockhouse and Margaret Wood in 1692. The other entries are for burials with 2 at Wallsall (1692 and 1707), five at Rugeley (1726, 1726, 1732, 1733 and 1759), and one at Cannock (1756).
Walsall is 13 miles from Rugeley, ten miles from Lichfield, 8 miles from Cannock and 3 miles from Aldridge. Cannock is 7 miles from Rugeley.
Checking ancestry.ca for possible baptisms for a John Brockhouse in Staffordshire.
John Brockhouse baptized 17 Jul 1706 at Walsall so perhaps accounts for the burial in 1707.
John Brockhouse baptized 3 Oct 1740 at Rugeley son of William and Hannah Brockhouse
John Brockhouse baptized 4 Apr 1773 at Cannock son of Thomas and Ann Brockhouse
John Brockhouse baptized 7 Apr 1695 at Rugeley son of John and Margaret Brockhouse
John Brockhouse married Margaret Wood 27 Apr 1692 at Rugeley
John and Margaret Brockhouse baptized four children at Rugeley (from parish records filmed at Family History Library):
Margaret baptized 31 Dec 1693 and buried 15 Jan 1693/94
John baptized 7 Apr 1695
William baptized 26 Nov 1697
Joan baptized 14 Jul 1700
Continuing to look at Ancestry.ca:
No marriages found for William and Hannah Brockhouse or Thomas and Ann Brockhouse.
This is the first time that I have found a John Brockhouse baptized 3 Oct 1740 at Rugeley son of William and Hannah Brockhouse. Is it possible that he is the John Brockhouse who married Margaret Wood in 1692. He would be 52 so not likely but still possible. Will leave that thought for another day. This couple did name a son William and a son John.
The parents of Margaret Wood could be William Woode married to Esabell Diram 25 Aug 1650 at Rugeley with William Woode possible being the William baptized 23 Apr 1628 at Rugeley son of Anthony Woode (information gleaned at Salt Lake City in 2008).Checking for baptism for Margaret Wood on Find My Past. There are 87 results for Margaret Wood (with variations on the surname included in the search). None of these results are at Rugeley. There is a marriage of William Wood and Esobell Diran at Rugeley in 1650.
Checking Ancestry.ca for Margaret Wood.
Margt. Wood baptized 15 Feb 1666/67 at Rugeley daughter of William Wood
Wm. Wood baptized 23 Dec 1632 at Rugeley
Interesting looking at this family eight years after visiting Salt Lake City where I found all the original information that I had on this family. Now I can pull it up on Ancestry.ca, Find My Past and Family Search. Genealogy has moved along and for the most part I have use electronic means of finding data but I have also visited many many repositories in the last 11 years.
Marriage of Wm Wood and Esabell Diram 25 Aug 1650 at Rugeley (with alternate spellings of Esobell Diran presented).
Can I claim the John Brockhouse baptized 1695 at Rugeley as the father of Charles Brockhouse baptized 12 Oct 1721 at Saint Mary Lichfield? Have I shown enough proof that the father of this Charles was John. Indeed is the Charles Brockhouse baptized 12 Oct 1721 at St Mary Lichfield the same Charles who married Ann Lea 23 Jan 1748 at Rugeley? I know my line coming down from Margaret Brockhouse who married John Welch 16 Feb 1783 at Rugeley. Is she the daughter of Charles Brockhouse and Ann Lea?
The old argument of there isn't anyone else named Charles used to be an effective one. Is it still? Do I have any family finder matches with descendant members of the Brockhouse family. Charles and Ann baptized 9 children at Rugeley although I have not traced any of them down so that is perhaps a next step for me looking at this family.
Having checked the registers manually for the Brockhouse family at Rugeley I feel confident that this Charles is the father of Margaret. But I need to work on this family sometime in the future and bring some of these lines down closer to the present to find matches with autosomal DNA.
Ancestry of Margaret Brockhouse:
1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township, Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
6. William WELCH (b 11 Nov 1792) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
7. Margaret BROCKHOUSE (b 22 Sep 1754) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
8. Charles BROCKHOUSE
Monday, November 30, 2015
Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter Volume 1 Issue 1
Pincombe-Pinkham
Newsletter
Table
of Contents
1.
Coat of Arms of the Pincombe Family of
South Molton
2.
yDNA Study of the Pincombe-Pinkham Family
3.
Autosomal Study of the descendants of Robert
Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe
4.
Visitation of Devon – Pincombe – 1620
(with additions) compared to earlier Visitations
5.
Pincombe line of the Editor
Coat of Arms of the Pincombe Family of
South Molton
Only
one line, as far as I am aware, of the Pincombe Family has ever been entitled
to bear the coat of arms pictured in this newsletter. This was the Pincombe
line at South Molton. The Grant from the Royal College was in 1616 to John
Pyncombe who was married to Amy Dodridge sister to Judge Dodridge (daughter of
Richard Dodridge of Barnstaple). His son also bore these arms, John Pincombe
(Barister of the Middle Temple) married to Mary daughter of Sir John Carew of
Crowcombe. I do not know if the son of John Pincombe, Richard Pincombe, ever
bore these arms in the short year after his father died and before he died. I
believe that Gertrude sister to Richard may have borne these arms as the eldest
daughter but that would have ended with her. The wealth of this particular
Pincombe family formed The Pyncombe Trust which still exists today at Poughill.
yDNA study of the Pincombe-Pinkham family
Although I started this project at FT DNA back in
2008, it is only at this time that there are sufficient results to really
discuss the yDNA portion of the results for the Pincombe-Pinkham family. I
should mention that I am developing very much of a hands-off approach to these
DNA studies. Although this is likely a singleton family, there are still going
to be possibilities for differing results. There could be an occasion where a
line daughtered out and a male has taken his wife’s surname for whatever
reason. There is always the possibility of adoption especially in the early
years in the American Colonies given the high death rate. As well, the
possibility of not the expected male line could also occur in the case of
illegitimacy.
Thus far there are two distinct lines for this
family:
R1b haplogroup (North Devon ancestry) and I
haplogroup (Colonial America).
Obviously these two are not related in any sort of
genealogical timeframe. A suggestion was made to me by one of the members of
the Pinkham-1 group that in his researching he had discovered the possibility
that an ancient ancestor had been adopted by a Pincombe family in the 1600s in
Colonial America. This would certainly account for the difference.
The three results for the North Devon family (and the
Pinkham result which has not yet been able to find their emigrant ancestor
although I have placed him in this grouping because he matches the other two in
a reasonable genealogical timeframe accounting for any differences) are from
the R1b haplogroup generally referred to as R-L21. All results belong to R-L21
although the haplogroup testing has only been performed on the one sample but
the SNP M269 is upstream of the SNP L21. None of these three men are an exact
match but in each case they are separated by hundreds of years with the first
sample being descendant of the Barnstaple/Bideford Pincombe family, the second
being descendant of my line at Bishops Nympton and the third being in the
American Colonies and traced back into the mid 1700s thus far. Family lore
links the family at South Molton/North Molton with the Barnstaple/Bideford
Pincombe family. In particular William Pincombe who left his will in 1602
probated 1605 had seven sons and to date I have only been able to trace three
of them down into a reasonable time frame with all remaining in the South
Molton/North Molton area into the 1800s.
Unfortunately the three results for the group labeled
Pinkham-1 are not quite so clearcut. Two members of this group are a good match
but the third member does not match them although he too belongs to haplogroup
I. Time may well answer all questions in that regard.
Until recently I have more or less ignored the yDNA
study because I wasn’t able to resolve the differences in the results but the
addition of the two R1b results has clarified the study and renewed my thoughts
on the value of the yDNA study.
I had received 14 charts (bulletin board sized) from
the earlier Pincombe researchers which I am slowly entering into Legacy (I do
have these charts in electronic form) which showed that Pincombe and Pinkham
were used interchangeably by a number of the descendant families in North Devon
and elsewhere although in my Pincomb/Pincombe line at Bishops Nympton the
spelling Pinkham was never used in any English records.
Autosomal
Study of the descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe
The excitement of autosomal DNA is slowly seeping
into one-name studies. Women can not test for their ancestors in any male line
unless they have a male to test for them – father, brother, male cousin in that
line, or uncle. But women can test their autosomal DNA and match with other
descendants of particular ancestors. In this case I have a number of
interesting matches with descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe
our mutual 3x great grandparents (or 4x great grandparents in one of the
matches).
As these studies grow and more people test a number
of interesting facts are emerging. Perhaps the most important is that siblings
do not inherit equally from their grandparents; it can be quite amazingly
different. A number of my siblings have tested and the differences between us
are remarkable but well within the limits of being full siblings. In some cases
one sibling may match a cousin on more chromosomes than another sibling giving
a much rounder picture of the DNA of the most recent common ancestor.
The X-Descendant (red) set of results are male
individuals who have tested their Y DNA and have joined the study because they
have autosomal DNA results. Eventually I hope to come up with a method to
display the Family Finder results but to date I have not yet been able to discover
an interesting but anonymous way to reveal these results.
Visitation of Devon – Pincombe – 1620
(with additions) compared to earlier Visitations
The above image is of “The Visitations of the County
of Devon” 1620 with additions. Over time, I tended to mostly use this
particular copy because it appeared to be more complete than the others.
However a rather interesting change had occurred over time between this
particular Visitation and the original 1620 Visitation of Devon.
Probably the biggest change is the naming of the sons
of the original Pyncombe of Northmolton who arrived there with Lord de la
Zouche circa 1485. Of note, Lord de la Zouche was attainted after the Battle of
Bosworth Field. One could wonder if our Pyncombe ancestor was also at Bosworth
Field fighting with Richard III but to date I have not yet found anything to
collaborate that possibility. The sons in the original Visitation were listed
as Thomas (lived at Filleigh (and my ancestor), John and an unknown Pyncombe
rather than two with the forename John and one Thomas. Now the Visitation with
additions provides extra information beyond the 1620 Visitation and is rather
handy to use which is why I forgot over time that the names of the sons had
been altered.
Pincombe Line of the Editor
At the time of producing this list I am still in the
process of gathering up all the references and I am in disagreement with the
original study by the Pincombe-Pinkham one name study. A cousin of mine
checking with the Royal College was told that it was probably not possible to
separate out the descendant lines of John Pincombe and Johane Blackmoore so
that there are a couple of generations below this couple down to my ancestor
John PIncombe and Mary Charlie. However, I did transcribe the entire Bishops
Nympton Parish Registers and feel that I have been able to separate out these
lines and determine the generations between John Pincombe/Johane Blackmoore and
John Pincombe/Mary Charlie.
My ancestor Richard Pincombe at Bishops Nympton
baptized his eldest son William in 1599 but his first wife died shortly after.
He remarried and had a second family at Bishops Nympton. He did not marry his
first wife at Bishops Nympton and I have not yet found that marriage but he is
mentioned in his father’s will (William Pincombe of East Buckland) as is his
son William.
1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE
3. John Routledge PINCOMBE (b 10 Sep 1872)
4. William Robert PINCOMBE (b 11 Jun 1837) - Molland
Devon
5. John PINCOMBE (b 5 Jul 1808) - Bishops Nympton
Devon
6. Robert PINCOMBE (b 4 Oct 1775) - Bishops Nympton
Devon
7. John PINCOMBE (b 13 Feb 1728) - Bishops Nympton
Devon
8. John PNCOMBE (b 12 Jun 1692) - Bishops Nympton
Devon
9. William PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1656) - Bishops Nympton
Devon
10. John PINCOMBE (b 19 Jan 1622) - Bishops Nympton
Devon
11. Willyam PINCOMBE (b 23 Mar 1599) - Bishops
Nympton Devon
12. Richarde PINCOMBE (bc 1570s) - East Buckland Devon
13. Willyam PYNCOMBE (bc 1530s) - East Buckland Devon
14. Thomas PENCOMBE (bc 1500s) – North
Molton/Filleigh Devon
15. Unknown PENCOMBE/PYNCOMBE
Submissions to the Newsletter
Please feel free to submit material to the
Newsletter. I will publish the Pincombe entries in the Bishops Nympton Parish
Registers and other Registers that I have transcribed in North Devon.
Please submit the articles to: Kippeeb@rogers.com
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