Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter Volume 1 Issue 1

Pincombe-Pinkham Newsletter

Table of Contents

1.   Coat of Arms of the Pincombe Family of South Molton

2.   yDNA Study of the Pincombe-Pinkham Family

3.   Autosomal Study of the descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe

4.   Visitation of Devon – Pincombe – 1620 (with additions) compared to earlier Visitations

5.   Pincombe line of the Editor

Coat of Arms of the Pincombe Family of South Molton

Only one line, as far as I am aware, of the Pincombe Family has ever been entitled to bear the coat of arms pictured in this newsletter. This was the Pincombe line at South Molton. The Grant from the Royal College was in 1616 to John Pyncombe who was married to Amy Dodridge sister to Judge Dodridge (daughter of Richard Dodridge of Barnstaple). His son also bore these arms, John Pincombe (Barister of the Middle Temple) married to Mary daughter of Sir John Carew of Crowcombe. I do not know if the son of John Pincombe, Richard Pincombe, ever bore these arms in the short year after his father died and before he died. I believe that Gertrude sister to Richard may have borne these arms as the eldest daughter but that would have ended with her. The wealth of this particular Pincombe family formed The Pyncombe Trust which still exists today at Poughill.

yDNA study of the Pincombe-Pinkham family

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Pincombe-Pinkham?iframe=yresults

Although I started this project at FT DNA back in 2008, it is only at this time that there are sufficient results to really discuss the yDNA portion of the results for the Pincombe-Pinkham family. I should mention that I am developing very much of a hands-off approach to these DNA studies. Although this is likely a singleton family, there are still going to be possibilities for differing results. There could be an occasion where a line daughtered out and a male has taken his wife’s surname for whatever reason. There is always the possibility of adoption especially in the early years in the American Colonies given the high death rate. As well, the possibility of not the expected male line could also occur in the case of illegitimacy. 

Thus far there are two distinct lines for this family:

R1b haplogroup (North Devon ancestry) and I haplogroup (Colonial America).

Obviously these two are not related in any sort of genealogical timeframe. A suggestion was made to me by one of the members of the Pinkham-1 group that in his researching he had discovered the possibility that an ancient ancestor had been adopted by a Pincombe family in the 1600s in Colonial America. This would certainly account for the difference. 

The three results for the North Devon family (and the Pinkham result which has not yet been able to find their emigrant ancestor although I have placed him in this grouping because he matches the other two in a reasonable genealogical timeframe accounting for any differences) are from the R1b haplogroup generally referred to as R-L21. All results belong to R-L21 although the haplogroup testing has only been performed on the one sample but the SNP M269 is upstream of the SNP L21. None of these three men are an exact match but in each case they are separated by hundreds of years with the first sample being descendant of the Barnstaple/Bideford Pincombe family, the second being descendant of my line at Bishops Nympton and the third being in the American Colonies and traced back into the mid 1700s thus far. Family lore links the family at South Molton/North Molton with the Barnstaple/Bideford Pincombe family. In particular William Pincombe who left his will in 1602 probated 1605 had seven sons and to date I have only been able to trace three of them down into a reasonable time frame with all remaining in the South Molton/North Molton area into the 1800s. 

Unfortunately the three results for the group labeled Pinkham-1 are not quite so clearcut. Two members of this group are a good match but the third member does not match them although he too belongs to haplogroup I. Time may well answer all questions in that regard.

Until recently I have more or less ignored the yDNA study because I wasn’t able to resolve the differences in the results but the addition of the two R1b results has clarified the study and renewed my thoughts on the value of the yDNA study. 

I had received 14 charts (bulletin board sized) from the earlier Pincombe researchers which I am slowly entering into Legacy (I do have these charts in electronic form) which showed that Pincombe and Pinkham were used interchangeably by a number of the descendant families in North Devon and elsewhere although in my Pincomb/Pincombe line at Bishops Nympton the spelling Pinkham was never used in any English records.

Autosomal Study of the descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe

The excitement of autosomal DNA is slowly seeping into one-name studies. Women can not test for their ancestors in any male line unless they have a male to test for them – father, brother, male cousin in that line, or uncle. But women can test their autosomal DNA and match with other descendants of particular ancestors. In this case I have a number of interesting matches with descendants of Robert Pincombe and Elizabeth Rowcliffe our mutual 3x great grandparents (or 4x great grandparents in one of the matches).

As these studies grow and more people test a number of interesting facts are emerging. Perhaps the most important is that siblings do not inherit equally from their grandparents; it can be quite amazingly different. A number of my siblings have tested and the differences between us are remarkable but well within the limits of being full siblings. In some cases one sibling may match a cousin on more chromosomes than another sibling giving a much rounder picture of the DNA of the most recent common ancestor.

The X-Descendant (red) set of results are male individuals who have tested their Y DNA and have joined the study because they have autosomal DNA results. Eventually I hope to come up with a method to display the Family Finder results but to date I have not yet been able to discover an interesting but anonymous way to reveal these results.

Visitation of Devon – Pincombe – 1620 (with additions) compared to earlier Visitations

The above image is of “The Visitations of the County of Devon” 1620 with additions. Over time, I tended to mostly use this particular copy because it appeared to be more complete than the others. However a rather interesting change had occurred over time between this particular Visitation and the original 1620 Visitation of Devon.

Probably the biggest change is the naming of the sons of the original Pyncombe of Northmolton who arrived there with Lord de la Zouche circa 1485. Of note, Lord de la Zouche was attainted after the Battle of Bosworth Field. One could wonder if our Pyncombe ancestor was also at Bosworth Field fighting with Richard III but to date I have not yet found anything to collaborate that possibility. The sons in the original Visitation were listed as Thomas (lived at Filleigh (and my ancestor), John and an unknown Pyncombe rather than two with the forename John and one Thomas. Now the Visitation with additions provides extra information beyond the 1620 Visitation and is rather handy to use which is why I forgot over time that the names of the sons had been altered.

Pincombe Line of the Editor

At the time of producing this list I am still in the process of gathering up all the references and I am in disagreement with the original study by the Pincombe-Pinkham one name study. A cousin of mine checking with the Royal College was told that it was probably not possible to separate out the descendant lines of John Pincombe and Johane Blackmoore so that there are a couple of generations below this couple down to my ancestor John PIncombe and Mary Charlie. However, I did transcribe the entire Bishops Nympton Parish Registers and feel that I have been able to separate out these lines and determine the generations between John Pincombe/Johane Blackmoore and John Pincombe/Mary Charlie. 

My ancestor Richard Pincombe at Bishops Nympton baptized his eldest son William in 1599 but his first wife died shortly after. He remarried and had a second family at Bishops Nympton. He did not marry his first wife at Bishops Nympton and I have not yet found that marriage but he is mentioned in his father’s will (William Pincombe of East Buckland) as is his son William. 

1. Elizabeth BLAKE

2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE

3. John Routledge PINCOMBE (b 10 Sep 1872)

4. William Robert PINCOMBE (b 11 Jun 1837) - Molland Devon

5. John PINCOMBE (b 5 Jul 1808) - Bishops Nympton Devon

6. Robert PINCOMBE (b 4 Oct 1775) - Bishops Nympton Devon

7. John PINCOMBE (b 13 Feb 1728) - Bishops Nympton Devon

8. John PNCOMBE (b 12 Jun 1692) - Bishops Nympton Devon

9. William PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1656) - Bishops Nympton Devon

10. John PINCOMBE (b 19 Jan 1622) - Bishops Nympton Devon

11. Willyam PINCOMBE (b 23 Mar 1599) - Bishops Nympton Devon

12. Richarde PINCOMBE (bc 1570s) - East Buckland Devon

13. Willyam PYNCOMBE (bc 1530s) - East Buckland Devon

14. Thomas PENCOMBE (bc 1500s) – North Molton/Filleigh Devon

15. Unknown PENCOMBE/PYNCOMBE

Submissions to the Newsletter

Please feel free to submit material to the Newsletter. I will publish the Pincombe entries in the Bishops Nympton Parish Registers and other Registers that I have transcribed in North Devon. 

Please submit the articles to: Kippeeb@rogers.com

Newsletter for Pincombe-Pinkham one name study

A long time in the thinking process and an equally long time actually being written, the first issue of the Pincombe-Pinkham newsletter will be published 1 Dec 2015 on this blog and available also on the Pincombe-Pinkham DNA study website at FT DNA.

The first issue is a look at the Pincombe family from a general point of view in terms of them having been armigerous at one point in the past, the Pincombe-Pinkham yDNA study, the autosomal DNA study, the Visitation of 1620 of Devon, my own line of Pincombe and a request for submissions. It is eight pages in length and it may be longer or shorter the next time. I suspect it will always be somewhat around the ten pages as I have a lot of material that I want to place online for this family so that it is accessible instead of being locked up in my computer and bookshelf.

My choosing Pincombe as a one name study (and the earlier study included Pinkham so I did that as well) stems directly from my mother being a Pincombe prior to marriage. She talked a lot about her family as she knew it when I was a child and as I discovered once the genealogy bug had bitten me that indeed she had a very accurate knowledge of her ancestors and where they had lived. She knew many many of their names (female ancestors) with good accuracy.

I also discovered a lot about my mother's character that I did not know as a child growing up in her household (a household I left at the age of 20 years when I married). I probably would have known more about her had I stayed longer as an adult but the mother that I knew remained pretty much the same up until I married. Then we moved away so that our visits back were short and we really never talked a lot until the time came for my parent's 50th anniversary and she really did want someone to do some family research. My husband agreed to take on the task and dragged me off to the Family History Library to see what could be found. Almost nothing on my father's parents/grandparents in the mid 1980s as it turned out and not a great deal on my mother's parents/grandparents as they did not hold the films that I needed to look at in house. My husband though had the foresight to actually sit and talk to my mother and take down all the information that she knew (which proved to be quite accurate) and the same with my father although I did have some memories of my grandfather talking about his Blake line that was also helpful.

We did manage to put together all the great great grandparents as we knew them but that was pretty much the limit of it. My mother also gave my husband a stack of old letters, old pictures and other memorabilia which we perhaps supposed to return but I guess that got forgotten on both of our parts and nearly twenty years later my husband was going through an old trunk and found the box that she had given him. A treasure trove for me as by that time around 2004 I was into family history. One of the letters had an address from 10 years prior and we did write to that address at the time of the 50th anniversary history search and the letter was forwarded to a cousin by the present homeowner there and we did acquire some photos and a little information to put into the family history.

But as mentioned I learned a lot more about my mother's character working on family history of which I was unaware. She was very gregarious and extremely thoughtful as a person. These traits are not overly noticed by children I suspect as she was also a very strict mother and permitted no deviations from her assigned protocol on how a day would unfold! Interesting that my grandmother (her mother) I found to be a very sweet kindly overly flexible person but my mother certainly painted her mother as being much the same as I saw my mother! My own children adored my mother and took her death at 85 years very hard. The last time they had seen her she was well and healthy so her sudden death was an enormous shock to them. They saw her as this wonderful thoughtful kind grandmother who fitted her day around them to suit whatever they wanted to do. Perhaps it is that tendency of grandmothers/mothers that makes us the kind of people we are today.

John Welch (1756 - 1812)

52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 48

Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton, Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown), Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham, unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, unknown, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown

John Welch was baptized at Rugeley Staffordshire 25 Apr 1756 son of Thomas Welch and Mary Linn  who were themselves married 2 Sep 1745 at Rugeley Staffordshire.When we were in Salt Lake City in 2008 I went through the Rugeley Staffordshire parish records which they held. They were perhaps the Bishops Transcripts and I still have not seen the original parish records online. Likely I will need to subscribe to The Genealogist.UK to view some of these other counties in the future but that brief search through the Rugeley records showed me that my Welch family was unique at Rugeley and I was able to put the family together.

Thomas and Mary Welch baptized a number of children at Rugeley:

Sarah baptized 28 Jun 1747
Mary baptized 8 Apr 1753
John baptized 25 Apr 1756
Ann baptized 26 Dec 1758
Susannah baptized 3 May 1761

John does appear to be the only male Welch child baptized at Rugeley in this time period.

Thomas was baptized 22 Apr 1711 at Rugeley the son of William Welch and Sarah (unknown). William is likely the William Welch buried at Rugeley 20 Apr 1713.

William and Sarah Welch baptized a number of children at Rugeley:

Thomas baptized 22 Apr 1711
Mary buried 26 Dec 1712 at Rugeley
Winnifred baptized 24 Jan 1714

The marriage of William and Sarah was not at Rugeley. I shall check Find My Past today to see if I can locate a marriage for this couple. I did not find anything on Find My Past nor did I find anything on Ancestry. Nor did I find anything on Family Search. Looking at Genuki the following:

"The register of the parish church of St Augustine commences in 1569. The original registers for the period 1569-1905 (Bapts), 1569-1915 (Mar), & 1569-1956 (Bur) and Banns for the period 1823-1890 are deposited at Staffordshire Record Office.
Bishops Transcripts for the period 1659-1880 (with gaps 1681-1684, 1735-1738 & 1780-1795) are deposited at Lichfield Record Office.
A transcript of the registers for the period 1569-1722 was published in 1928 by the Staffordshire Parish Register Society and has been reprinted by the Birmingham & Midland SGH."

I believe that the transcript of the registers published in 1928 is what I viewed at The Family History Centre Library in Salt Lake City.

 I did image a number of items at Salt Lake City and will review them.

Richard Welch married Margery Litton 30 Dec 1675
Thomas Welch son of William and Sarah baptized 22 Apr 1711
Mary daughter of William Welch buried 26 Dec 1712
William Welch buried 20 Apr 1713
Winnifred daughter of William and Sarah Welch, posthumous, baptized 24 Jan 1713
Anne Welch daughter of Mr Henry and Anne Welch baptized 10 Oct 1714
Thomas Harvey married Edith Welch by banns 4 Nov 1717
John Welch bastard son of Sarah Welch baptized 16 Jan 1717/18

I had forgotten that there was another couple baptizing children at this same time - Henry and Anne Welch. I did not find any baptisms for Richard and Margery Welch who married in 1675 at Rugeley. 

The marriage of Thomas Welch and Mary Linn by banns  2 Sep 1745:

The baptism of my 4x great grandfather John Welch son of Thomas and Mary Welch baptized 25 Apr 1756:

I do have the marriage registration for John Weltch and Margaret Brockhouse who were married 16 Feb 1783:

John and Margaret Welch baptized a number of children at Rugeley:

Thomas baptized 3 Nov 1783 (married Rebecca Reeves 8 Aug 1814 at Rugeley)
John baptized 3 Jul 1785
Ann baptized 11 Nov 1787 (married William Beardsmore 15 Sep 1812 at Rugeley)
Sarah baptized 10 May 1789 (married William Reeves 15 Oct 1812 at Rugeley)
Mary baptized 25 Dec 1790 (married John Tomlinson 26 Jun 1814 at Rugeley)
William baptized 11 Nov 1792 (married Sarah Cheatle 24 Aug 1818 at Longdon by Lichfield)
Hannah baptized 6 Apr 1794 (married John Wilks 26 Dec 1814 at Rugeley)
Susanna baptized 8 Nov 1795
Frances baptized 2 Jul 1797
Henry baptized 5 May 1799 (married Elizabeth Radford 19 Apr 1824 at Colton)
James baptized 12 Jul 1801 (married Lucy Welch)

The descendants of John and Margaret Welch known to me (grandchildren) number 44. I have not traced down many of these grandchildren but should consider that if I really want to do anything with the autosomal. It is possible that many of these descendants still live in the Birmingham area and with Who Do You Think You Are Live in Birmingham it is possible they might test their autosomal DNA but I might not spot them in my matches.

Marriage of William Welch and Sarah Cheatle (my 3x great grandparents):

One of the first items that I noted was that William has signed the register whereas his father John made his mark. William was a restaurant owner in Birmingham from the mid 1820s to the end of the 1850s. It is possible that Sarah his wife was partly the reason for his successful entrepreneurship. One notes that William Cheatle is one of the witnesses and this could be Sarah's father. Sarah has also signed the register.

Ann, daughter of William and Sarah, married Henry Christopher Buller in 1838 at Edgbaston (she was just 18 years of age and I suspect a run away marriage) and their son Edwin Denner Buller was my great grandfather.

The story of John Welch is virtually unchanged from my early thoughts. I have no ideas on the origin of this Welch family; are they descendant of Richard and Margery and was Henry a brother to William from the early Rugeley records? At some point I shall have to visit this family again when records for Staffordshire are available. 

Ancestry of John Welch:

1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township, Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada
3. Ellen Rosina BULLER (b 20 May 1886) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
4. Edwin Denner BULLER (b 8 Apr 1850) - Birmingham Warwickshire England
5. Ann WELCH (b 4 Jan 1820) - Ashby de la Zouch Leicester England
6. William WELCH (b 11 Nov 1792) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
7. John WELCH (b 25 Apr 1756) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
8. Thomas WELCH (b 22 Apr 1711) - Rugeley Staffordshire England
9. William WELCH

I2a1b1a1 - S2703 further subdivided to I2a1b1a1 - Y14338

The latest ISOGG tree has now been updated for my brother's I haplogroup. This is now referred to as I2a1b1a1 with S2703 being the terminal SNP thus far. S2703 is one of the SNPs tested at BritainsDNA. Looking at their anonymized data there are 17 individuals who have tested with BritainsDNA at the time of my acquiring this chart (19 Feb 2014 - I should check for an update) and my brother shows AC for this particular snp. Of the 17 others testing for this snp and belonging to this haplogroup, five tested CC and 12 tested AC. The ancestral value for this particular SNP is CC and the derived value is AC.

I haven't looked at National Genographic summaries for a while and will check and see if there is anyone closely related who has responded. I can not find them on the site any longer. There wasn't anyone who had responded that was close to our line though.

On paper this Blake line can be traced back through my father (born at Eastleigh, Hampshire) to his father (born at Upper Clatford, Hampshire) to his father, grandfather and great grandfather (all born at Upper Clatford). My 4x great grandfather Joseph Blake was baptized at Andover (1730) son of Thomas Blake also baptized at Andover (1709) to his father Thomas baptized at Andover (1685) to his father John baptized at Andover (1649, but living at Penton Mewsey) to his father William baptized at Andover 1615 to his father William born circa 1583-5 at Andover). His father Richard was born at Knights Enham circa late 1550s to his father William born at Knights Enham circa 1510s-1520s son of Nicholas Blake who was likely born at Knights Enham circa 1480s-1490s son of Richard Blake born likely at Knights Enham circa 1450s-1460s son of Robert Blake who likely married Maude Snell by the mid 1400s and left his will in 1520 living at Knights Enham. Robert was quite elderly when he left his will. His son Richard died within that next year leaving his will in 1521 and mentioning his son Robert and possibly his son Nicholas still working on that transcription from Latin. That would have Robert born circa 1420s-1430s and writing it down I hadn't really looked at that possible years of birth as being quite so early. There are records of Blake at Andover in the early 1300s and linking this Robert back to that John Blake is something I would like to work on.

BritainsDNA records this particular haplogroup I-S185 as an ancient one to the British Isles labeling them Deer Hunters and beonging to S185 in their nomenclature, this SNP is called L161 by FT DNA. This is the furtherest down the SNP tree that FT DNA is displaying thus far. In between L161 and L1498 is found S2639 for which my brother is derived.  ISOGG has added the S2703 below L1498 and on the BritainsDNA website they list S2640 as the furtherest subdivision for this group. S2643 is L1498 according to the YFULL tree and L1498 is tested by FT DNA but not yet listed on the tree there as mentioned.

The YFull tree has under L1498 two divisions Y3749 (S2640 (derived for my brother (in the anonymized study there are 6 ancestral and 11 derived members) and S2703 (derived for my brother (in the anonymized study there are 6 ancestral and 11 derived members)) and Y3722 (S7703 (does not appear on the SNPS tested for my brother)). That would place my brother's results under Y3749. This is listed as forming 6500 ybp. There are further divisions under this particular branch.

Y3749 has two main branches Y14338 (S2627) and Y3722. Checking the BritainsDNA results for S2627 and the result for my brother is derived thus placing him further under this subgrouping into Y14338 which does not yet have a name on the ISOGG tree. This haplogroup is most commonly found in the Republic of Ireland (Connaught) but also found sparsely in southern England (Devon/Somerset/Dorset/Wiltshire/Hampshire). A lot of interesting material to be found on this haplogroup in the future perhaps. I probably should do a Full Genome on my brother one of these days. That is on the backburner in my mind. I am thinking of soon doing AncestryDNA on my two brothers and then bringing the one brother who has not tested Family Finder into FT DNA to have him there.

The results for S2627 on Britains DNA have values of GG for ancestral and AA for derived. Of the 17 samples in the anonymized data only my brother is derived with the other 16 members being ancestral. For the moment then he would appear to be defining the Y14338 branch of the I2a1b1a1 haplogroup. This branch at 6500 ybp is interesting because his nearest match in the Blake study (there are two actually), is likely separated from him by this timeframe given the differences between them on 111 markers. This is perhaps saying that my ancestral line stopped in this Hampshire area on the trek towards the coast then of Doggerland/British Isles about 6500 years ago and the other branch continued on towards the western coast of the continent which then extended much farther out into the Atlantic Ocean but with the frquency of this group highest in the Connaught area in modern times (6500 years is a long time!). Perhaps that individual produced more male offspring than the one left behind in Hampshire thus resulting in much greater numbers. Always very interesting looking at the results of this haplogroup every six months or so as time moves onward and backwards as it turns out!

John Cobb (1750 - 1837)

52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 47

Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton, Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown), Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham, unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, Woodcock, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown

John Cobb (my 4x great grandfather), the son of John Cobb and Sarah Beilby, was baptized 29 Jul 1750 at Kilnwick on the Wolds, East Riding of Yorkshire (buried 5 May 1837 at Lund near Beverley). John Cobb and Sarah Beilby were  married 14 Nov 1745 at Lund near Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire. This birth registration as being correct is clearly established by the marriage registration for John Cobb and Ann Sproxton (image below) as being the correct John Cobb which states that John Cobb was born at Kilnwick and Ann Sproxton was born at Great Driffield.

Marriage registration for John Cobb and Ann Sproxton:

Marriage registration for John Cobb and Sarah Beilby:

John Cobb and Sarah Beilby baptized three children at Kilnwick on the Wolds:

Elizabeth baptized 22 Feb 1746
John baptized 29 Jul 1750 (and married to Ann Sproxton 24 Nov 1782 at Lund)
Benjamin baptized 16 Feb 1757

Kilnwick on the Wolds is 1.9 miles from Lund. I do have land records for John Cobb and will publish them here and they are all listed in the Land Tax assessments for the parish of Lund.

1812-1813 rate, John Cobb 7.5 pence
1812-1813 rate, Benjamin Cobb 5 pence

1813-1814 rate, John Cobb 5.5 pence
1813-1814 rate, Benjamin Cobb 3.5 pence

1815-1816 rate, John Cobb 5.5 pence

1816-1817 rate, John Cobb, 3.75 pence

1832-1833 rate, John Cobb 3.25 pence
1832-1833 rate, Benjamin Cobb 6.5 pence

1837-1838 rate, Late John Cobb 4.5 pence

1782 to 1837 list of proprietors and occupiers
John Cobb listed as proprietor and occupier and his rate 1 shilling 7 pence (varies)

Family history says that John was a farmer and the records bear this out. Benjamin is his younger brother and he is both a farmer and a shop keeper. John married Ann Sproxton 24 Nov 1782 at Lund:

What can I learn about John's parents John Cobb and Sarah Beilby? I know that they married 14 Nov 1745 at Lund.


Map of area (source Genuki)

Lund is surrounded by Middleton on the Wolds, Holme on the Wolds, Lockington, and Kilnwick on the Wolds.

There is a baptism for John Cobb at Lockington son of Benjamin and Mary Cobb 22 Dec 1708. That would make him 37 years of age when he married and is within a reasonable age for that. The forename Benjamin is interesting as John's brother is named Benjamin. This is the only baptism in the area around Lund that I have found and Lockington is 1.3 miles from Kilnwick.

Baptism for Benjamin Cobb son of Benjamin and Mary Cobb 22 Sep 1700 at Lockington.

I am unable to find any further information at Lockington for Benjamin and Mary Cobb other than burials in the 1730s although I can not for sure attach the burial of Mary Cobb widow to this particular couple.

There is a marriage of Benjamin Cobb and Mary Sanderson at Bishop Wilton 10 Jul 1694.  Bishop Wilton is 10 miles from Middleton on the Wolds and 12 miles from Lund.  Interesting and perhaps something to pursue in the future. There is a will probated at Londesborough for a Benjamin Cobb in 1728. There is a burial for a Benjamin Cobb yeoman 18 Apr 1728 at Londesborough. Londesborough is seven miles from Lund.

Ancestry of John Cobb:

1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township Middlesex County Ontario Canada
3. John Routledge PINCOMBE (b 10 Sep 1872)- Lobo Township Middlesex County Ontario Canada
4. Grace GRAY (b 22 Mar 1839) - London Township Middlesex County Ontario Canada
5. Robert GRAY (b 3 Nov 1810) - Etton Yorkshire England
6. Elizabeth COBB (b 24 Aug 1783) - Lund near Beverley Yorkshire England
7. John COBB (b 29 Jul 1750) - Kilnwick on the Wolds Yorkshire England
8. John COBB  (b 22 Dec 1708) - Lockington Yorkshire England

9. Benjamin COBB

Mission in Syria/Iraq and 25,000 refugees

Once I have gotten started on my political soapbox I guess I might as well as not get it out of my system.

I think that Prime Minister Trudeau is right to bring home the CF-18s. Our role as mentors is really where we want to be. I do not think we have to explain it at all. We also have a Field Hospital in Kuwait which we should continue I believe.

Bringing in the 25,000 refugees, I am in agreement. I realize that we will need to be cautious because these terrorists do not have any values with regard to decency. They live in some sort of a world where their rules and interpretation of the sacred Koran are right and everyone else including other Muslims are wrong. They are the Nazis of the 21st Century. Their tactics are so similar: beat them until they succumb; frighten them until they are afraid to resist and then force them to do what the terrorists want done. No wonder the Syrians are fleeing in such great numbers.

Hopefully as the refugees become part of a new society they will respect the existing society and not expect society to tune themselves into their way of life. We must merge if we want to survive as a democratic society.

Perhaps now I can get back to my genealogical studies. I voted for this party because I liked what they were saying. I have to be honest if I am buying my passport I would find it uncomfortable to be sold that passport by someone wearing a burka. It is such an impersonal garment and we are used to at least being able to see the person to whom we are handing our documents. But becoming a Canadian, if you have identified yourself properly, then I do not care what you wear to become a Canadian. One hopes it would just simply be appropriate for such a momentous occasion.

Prayers for Paris and the path ahead

We have visited Paris, France several times now and it is a beautiful city. The people are friendly and helpful when you wander about. We spent most of our time in the middle of the City where all the historical buildings and other items are located. Walked up to the Arc du Triomphe and viewed the city from its ramparts. Toured the Eiffel Tower and viewed Paris spread out before us in all its beauty. Every night at the Arc du Triomphe the French remember their war dead.

"A daily ritual pays tribute to the Great Dead: each evening, at six-thirty, a flame is rekindled by one of the nine hundred associations of former combatants regrouped under the association La Flamme sous l’Arc de Triomphe. During the Occupation, this daily kindling rite was performed unperturbed."
 http://www.arcdetriompheparis.com/

The carnage wrought upon Paris is a sin against humanity even more disgusting than the wrecking of the ancient monuments. What right does a group of people have to destroy what has survived through the millenia and that includes people as well as the artifacts of civilian life. If they are an army then get out in the field and fight like men instead of hiding amongst civilians and blasting themselves and everyone around them to pieces.

I am very much in support of Russia joining in this fight against ISIS, Jean Chretien has that right, and with the combined forces of the world we can eliminate them on the ground in the Middle East. But they have already infiltrated into the minds of youth around the world; incited them into thinking that their way of life is glorious. For every ISIS soldier we destroy on the battlefield we know that there are hidden "soldiers" out there waiting to don their suicide suits and destroy whatever they can. A new way of warfare - destroy what your families have created through the sweat of their brows to pass down to you - this inciting of youth to do destruction in their own neighbourhoods.

How do we reach those youth who have become radicalized and believe that our way of life is decadent? Education is perhaps the key. The rights of people to live their life in a manner that suits them so long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. What would our ancestors have thought of these radicals? I rather think that radicalism isn't really anything new. There have always been groups of people who banded together in a destructive way without regard even for property that they might one day inherit. But what drives them? Anger, greed, desire for friendship and there I think is perhaps the problem; the human need for society. Our society isolates people one from another as we become addicted to on line communication. But not everyone aspires to damage the lives of others. What makes the difference? We need to find that out? We need to discover why some people become radicalized. But more importantly we need to have our youth working; too many have acquired skills that they are unable to use; that causes frustration. Entry level jobs are few and typically those jobs did tend to be government but our last government eliminated those pretty quickly with their one track mind of Oil! Oil! Oil!

To me that should be the top priority of our new government; getting the youth working. Find the money by increasing the GST back up to 7% or even 8%. Fill the government coffers so there is an ability to create meaningful jobs. We have a huge country to tame and the youth have the ability to do that. They are natural entrepreneurs willing to risk in their early working lives to build up new industries for Canada. A one track economy of oil does not work for us and for that the Conservatives have lost my vote for quite a while I suspect. Too much money was wasted trying to get Keystone off the ground; trying to run pipelines through BC. If there is a need then there is a way but no one can see the need with millions of gallons of oil in surplus. Reinvent the wheel; come up with new industries to employ Canadians.

Perhaps our wealthiest Canadians could think about building some of these boats/planes that our navy/air force needs and gifting them to the country in return for a tax credit. 

Jane Hilton (1739 - 1824)

52 Ancestor Challenge - Challenge 46

Blake, King, Coleman, Pearce, Farmer, Mary (unknown), Lambden, Sarah (unknown), Knight, Ellis, Knight, Vincent, Butt, O'Ford, Arnold, Molton, Cotterell, Bartlett, Alderman, Shepherd, Sherwood, Elizabeth (unknown), Happerfield, Collins, Rawlings, Tanner, Dove, Morgan, Lywood, Lanham, unknown, Peck, Pincombe, Charley, Rowcliffe, Pearse, Rew, Moggridge, Siderfin, Kent, Gray, Hilton, Cobb, Sproxton, Routledge, Tweddle, Routledge, Routledge, (unknown) Buller, unknown, Beard, Hemsley, Welch, Brockhouse, Cheatle, Woodcock, unknown Taylor, unknown, Harborne, Lewis, Roberts, Croxall, Lawley, unknown

Jane Hilton has always been a bit of a mystery. I found the marriage of Robert Gray and Jane Hilton at Cherry Burton 6 Jun 1771 in 2004 when I was doing my course work at the National Institute for Genealogical Studies. I do not think my cousin George was convinced that this was necessarily the right marriage for the father of our Robert Gray baptized at Holme on the Wolds (we are fourth cousins and this is our common ancestor). I must write and ask him to read my idea through one of these days on Robert Gray. But looking around and finding the burial of a Robert Gray and a Jane Gray from Etton to Cherry Burton rather intrigued me and I pursued that thought.

Checking through Find My Past Records for Beverley:

Thomas Hilton - joyner/carpenter - baptized a number of children at Beverley.

Jane Hilton baptized 1 Aug 1739 at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas daughter of Thomas Hilton a joyner
Mary Hilton baptized 1 Jun 1741 at Beverley St John daughter of Thomas Hilton carpenter
Thomas Hilton baptized 26 Oct 1742 at Beverley St John son of Thomas Hilton carpenter
Elizabeth Hilton baptized 12 Mar 1745 at Beverley St John daughter of Thomas Hilton carpenter.

Francis Hilton - shoemaker - baptized a number of children also at Beverley.

Thomas Hilton son of Francis Hilton shoemaker buried 15 Aug 1740 at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas
Joshua Hilton baptized 14 Aug 1741 at Beverely St Mary and St Nicholas son of Francis Hilton shoemaker
Francis Hilton baptized 15 Nov 1743 at Beverely St Mary and St Nicholas son of Francis Hilton shoemaker
James Hilton baptized 30 Jul 1745 at Beverely St Mary and St Nicholas son of Francis Hilton shoemaker

Two Hilton families baptizing children during the same time period at Beverely.

A marriage I found earlier does fit in with these baptisms for Thomas Hilton at Beverley. Thomas Hilton and Mary Constable married 20 Jan 1739 at St Mary and St Nicholas in Beverley (both of the parish).

I am wondering if Francis and Thomas were brothers. Francis Hylton and Mary Daniel married 8 Nov 1738 at Kirby Underdale (Francis Hylton shoemaker of the parish of St Mary Beverley and Mary Daniel of the parish of Kirby Underdale).

Two Jane Hilton marriages were a bit confusing.

Jane Hilton and William Barton, banns were read and they married 5 Mar 1769 according to the register.

Jane Hilton was married to Robert Gray Junior 6 Jun 1771 at Cherry Burton, banns were read, and marriage soleminized in the presence of Robert Constable junior and Francis Baker.

A mystery there perhaps but having one of the witnesses of the marriage between Jane Hilton and Robert Gray as Robert Constable gives some credence to this Jane being the daughter of Thomas Hilton and Mary Constable.

Are Thomas Hilton and Francis Hylton related?

Thomas Hilton baptized 8 Dec 1706 son of Thomas Hilton shoemaker at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas; buried 15 Dec 1706
Thomas Hilton baptized 15 Mar 1707 son of Thomas Hilton shoemaker at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas
Frances Hilton baptized  9 Jan 1710 daughter of Thomas Hilton shoemaker at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas

Thomas Hilton shoemaker buried 21 May 1733 at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas

Thomas Hilton joiner buried 16 Jul 1765 at Beverley St Mary and St Nicholas

I am however satisfied that Jane Hilton is the daughter of Thomas Hilton and Mary Constable. Learning more about this family will be interesting. I am also confident that Thomas Hilton joiner is likely the son of Thomas Hilton shoemaker. But I was unable to find a marriage for this Thomas Hilton yet.

There was a Mary Constable baptized  7 Dec 1709 at Cherry Burton daughter of Richard Constable.

There was a substantial Constable family at Cherry Burton in this time period. There is a will for Richard Constable probated in 1719 of Cherry Burton. There are a number of wills for this Constable family and one day when I am looking at the Constable family I should investigate them.
 
Ancestry of Jane Hilton:

1. Elizabeth BLAKE
2. Helen Louise PINCOMBE (b 18 Oct 1916) - Westminster Township Middlesex County Ontario Canada
3. John Routledge PINCOMBE (b 10 Sep 1872)- Lobo Township Middlesex County Ontario Canada
4. Grace GRAY (b 22 Mar 1839) - London Township Middlesex County Ontario Canada
5. Robert GRAY (b 3 Nov 1810) - Etton East Riding of Yorkshire England
6. Robert GRAY (b 4 Aug 1774) - Holme on the Wolds East Riding of Yorkshire England
7. Jane HILTON (b  1 Aug 1739) - Beverley East Riding of Yorkshire England
8. Thomas HILTON (b 15 Mar 1707) - Beverley East Riding of Yorkshire England
9. Thomas HILTON