Who is George Pincombe at North Molton in the 1500s

Ever since I first read the North Molton Parish Registers I have wondered who George Pincombe was. The baptisms recorded that list George as the father and Dorothy as his wife are as follows:

Phillip baptized 28 May 1592
Emott baptized 9 Dec 1594
William baptized 15 Dec 1597
Johane baptized 9 Nov 1599
Henrye baptized 19 Dec 1602

George, if this was his first marriage, would have been born between 1560 and 1570 and married early in the 1590s since the first child baptized at North Molton was in 1592. George himself does not appear to have been baptized at North Molton since the parish registers go back to 1539. Of interest there is a William Pincombe married to Margaret Gregoire 26 Nov 1564 at North Molton. There was a William Pincombe buried 25 Mar 1565 (end of 1565 so Lady's Day must have been the 26th Mar 1566) (and 13 Sep 1564 but this is prior to the wedding date) and at North Molton. There was an Elizabeth Pincombe wife of William Pincombe buried 18 Feb 1563. William Pincombe was either married twice and Margaret was his second marriage or this William is perhaps a son of William and Elizabeth although his baptism does not occur at North Molton along with his, in this case, likely sisters baptized in the 1540s. He could have been baptized before 1539 when the registers begin. (The other possibility is that the son of William and Elizabeth died (William) and William married initially to Elizabeth now sought to replace his son and heir by remarrying.) The marriage lines do not indicate that he was a widower. From the Visitation we have Thomas Pincombe and John Pincombe as brothers and one unnamed Pincombe sibling. Thomas and John were likely married by the mid 1530s or earlier (Thomas Pencombe's will was dated 1544 at North Molton). William was married by 1543 as these two baptisms are recorded in the North Molton Parish Register:

Pyncombe    Agnes    daughter    Pyncombe    William            1543    June    6
Pyncombe    Mary    daughter    Pyncombe    William            1547    Dec    8

The earlier Pincombe one name study does have George as a son of William Pincombe and Margaret Gregoire. Just as they have the brother of George as William Pincombe married to Temperance Pollard. With the earlier study having William Pincombe married to Margaret Gregoire named as a son of William Pincombe and Emotte Snowe. The Will of William Pincombe dated 20 Dec 1602  (which fortunately exists and entered into my blog 30 Jul 2011 ) does mention his son William but does not mention any children and he is still living. William (the testator) does mention the children of his son John and his son Richard. It would just seem peculiar to mention William and not his children if indeed George was his child and then who were the William Pincombes buried in 1564 and 1565 at North Molton since the William Pincombe mentioned in his father's will is still alive.

One of the many reasons that I decided to transcribe the Parish Registers for this area was to try to solve the differences between the wills and the personal memories of Pincombe families which are recorded on these earlier charts from the one name Pincombe study. Family lore is always interesting because it is passed down by word of mouth - certainly my mother knew her line back to John Pincombe and Grace Manning who married at Bishops Nympton in 1725 and I retain that family lore as I work through the results. I decided to pull out all the Freeholder data on the Pincombe family trying to ignore any preconceived ideas and the flow from John Pincombe/Grace Manning and their two sons and one daughter to the next generation worked beautifully without my assuming anything. Their eldest son William and his heir died leaving no subsequent heirs. Their second son John married to Mary Charlie/Charley had three sons and two daughters and the Pincombe families found at Bishops Nympton from the late 1700s into the 1800s were descendants of this couple or they traced back to the much earlier family of John Pincombe and Johane Blackmore (which I refer to as the Thomas Pincombe line).

That being said I am confident of my mother's memory and somewhat inhibited by the collective memories of those who contributed to the earlier study. In the case of the Bishops Nympton lines no one contributed to that particular study page and it does appear to have been collected from the IGI for the most part and is simply in error. Since the will of William Pincombe is available and the children given to him on the study page do not match then I have concluded that this part of the study is somewhat in error in that regard but there is still likely some truth in it since the collective memory of people can be most helpful in looking at family lines. It is possible that the collective memory combined with the IGI was used to create the chart without the final input from the collective memory so that errors arose in interpretation of the collective memory. A danger in genealogy I expect. Combine that with the loss of wills in WWII at Exeter and it may be very very difficult to put the Pincombe family together without a yDNA study being undertaken to resolve the inter-relatedness of the many Pincombe branches in North Devon and finally elsewhere as they moved out from this area.

So the thought remains - who is William Pincombe who married Margaret Gregoire at North Molton in 1564? Is he the father of George Pincombe who married Dorothy (surname unknown) by 1592 and was baptizing children as shown above in the 1590s and early 1600s?

The tax rolls once again at North Molton:

Surname    Forename    Parish    Year    Property
Pencombe    Alice (wid)  North Molton      1545 Subsidy    5
Pencombe    John           North Molton       1545 Subsidy    4
Pencombe    William      North Molton        1545 Subsidy    6

Pyncombe    Emma wid    North Molton    1581 Subsidy    G 3


The 36 years between subsidy rolls sees only one family left at North Molton paying taxes and Emma is likely the wife of John Pencombe. William is there in 1545 but gone in 1581 (is he the William buried at North Molton in 1564 or 1565?). Who is Alice Pencombe? Of note there was a will probated in 1567 that belonged to William Pincombe at North Molton.

A number of wills are probated at Barnstaple showing North Molton as the location for the testator:

Surname       Forename   Place            County        Date
Pyncombe     William     North Molton     DEV           1567  
Pyncombe     Peternell     North Molton     DEV           1591  
Pinckomb               North Molton     DEV           1610  
Pinckombe               North Molton     DEV           1610  
Pynckomb               North Molton     DEV           1615  
Pyncombe     George         North Molton     DEV           1624  

The wills help to tell the story but would tell it so much better if they still existed as other than a list. George is listed at North Molton in 1624 as having left a will. Margaret Gregoire Pincombe did marry again after the death of William and she was married to William Squire according to the earlier researchers and the parish register for North Molton records this marriage as William Squire and Margerett Pyncombe marrying 26 May 1567. Unfortunately there isn't a note to say whether Margerett was a widow. In 1581 when the subsidy was taken, George would have only been 17 years old and if he was the son of William and Margaret born in 1564 was probably still living with his step father William Squire.

I am continuing with the transcription of the Parish Registers and there are still only baptisms recorded as I move forward logically through the microfiche. By the end of 1601 there are  1472 baptisms with a number of new families now baptizing children at North Molton. With the children of George and Dorothy Pincombe being baptized, the Pincombe family is again in the Parish Registers at the end of the 1500s. It would appear that the earlier researchers are in error with regard to William Pincombe married to Margaret Gregoire being a son of William Pincombe and Emotte Snowe. Looking at the date of the marriage 26 Nov 1564 it is remotely possible that William and Margaret had more than one child between the date of their marriage and up to nine months after the date of William's death 25 Mar 1565. He lived one year and five months after his marriage so George could have been born posthumously and I have not yet found his baptism nor do I know where Margaret Gregoire was baptized or where her family lived.

I am still curious about who Alice Pincombe widow is? Was she the wife of the first Pincombe at North Molton and the mother of John, Thomas and unknown Pincombe listed in the visitation of Devon 1620? Was there also a daughter Margaret who married Philip Kingdon 15 Nov 1539 at North Molton. Certainly the time frame is good for her to be a sister to John, Thomas and unknown. I will continue to search her line forward from the two daughters Johane and Wilmote. Johane married William Hobb 28 Jan 1564 at North Molton and thus far there is Philip (daughter) baptized 16 Apr 1568, Margarett baptized 11 Jan 1572, Mathewe baptized 30 Mar 1575, Philip (son) baptized 4 Aug 1577, Agnes baptized 24 Apr 1580 and Richard baptized 3 Dec 1583. No marriage found for Wilmote.

Is the unknown sibling William Pincombe  married to Elizabeth (surname unknown)? The time frame again works for he would have been born in that first twenty years of the 1500s and baptizing children in the 1540s and possibly earlier. Now that I have the list of properties which were held by John Pincombe Senior of South Molton I hope to be able to discover the unique history of some of these particular holdings to see if I can do a family search on the property and perhaps discover more details on the Pincombe family that are elusive at the moment. John Pincombe was most certainly the eldest of the possible four siblings - he has more property than any of his siblings. Some of that property was entailed and ended up in the Tuckfield family which was the last remaining heir of John Pincombe. Was it because the wife of John Pincombe (son of the unknown Pincombe who first arrived at North Molton around 1485) was a member of this family or related to it? From another source I suspect that his wife was of the Dodderidge family. Another well known family in North Devon into which the grandson of John married (Amy Dodderidge married John Pincombe 15 Nov 1578 at Barnstaple) and I have yet to delve into this family at all. 

What property came to the first Pincombe from Lord Zouch? Discovering the answer to that question probably means reading the Manor Book for North Molton. Searching the National Archives (UK) website reveals:

Context
C  Records created, acquired, and inherited by Chancery, and also of the Wardrobe, Royal Household, Exchequer and various commissions
      top of page Division within C  Records of Equity Side: the Six Clerks
            top of page C 1  Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Early Proceedings, Richard II to Philip and Mary
                  top of page C 1/599  Chancery pleadings addressed to Thomas Wolsey, Archbishop of York, Cardinal and Papal Legate as Lord Chancellor. Detailed descriptions at item level
Top of page
Record Summary
Scope and content    
John, Lord Zouche, great-grandson of Elizabeth, daughter and heir of Richard de Sancto Mauro the elder, Lord Seymour. v. Thomas Parker.: Detention of deeds relating to the manor of North Molton and messuages, land, mills, and rent there.: Devon.
Covering dates     1518-1529
Held by    
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status     Public Record(s)

Certainly these documents could prove to be quite interesting. As well as the one below which refers to the property that eventually is mentioned in the will of William Pincombe (1602, see Blog 31 Jul 2011).

C  Records created, acquired, and inherited by Chancery, and also of the Wardrobe, Royal Household, Exchequer and various commissions
      top of page Division within C  Records of Equity Side: the Six Clerks
            top of page C 1  Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Early Proceedings, Richard II to Philip and Mary
                  top of page C 1/1115  Chancery pleadings addressed to Thomas Wriotheseley, Lord Wriotheseley as Lord Keeper or Lord Chancellor. Detailed descriptions at item level.
Top of page
Record Summary
Scope and content    
Robert DAVY of Crediton (Kyrton) v. William COTHAY and others.: Rent of a farm called Over Molland Sarazyn and Nether Molland Sarazyn in North Molton, formerly of Thomas Chalocombe, gentleman.: DEVON.
Covering dates     1544 April 22 - 1547 Feb 15
Note     Mutilated.
Held by    
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status     Public Record(s)

Pincombe images from John Rylands University Library at the University of Lancashire

My two images have come quickly from the John Rylands University in Lancashire UK and I am very pleased with the result. I looked up John Rylands on wikipedia with the following resultant information gleaned:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rylands

"John Rylands (7 February 1801 – 11 December 1888) was an English entrepreneur, and philanthropist. He was the owner of the largest textile manufacturing concern in the United Kingdom, and Manchester's first multi-millionaire.

"After having learned to weave Rylands became a small-scale manufacturer of hand-looms, while also working in the draper's shop his father had opened in St Helens. He displayed a "precocious shrewdness" for retailing,[1] and in partnership with his two older brothers expanded into the wholesale trade. So successful were they that in 1819 Rylands' father merged his retail business with theirs, creating the firm of Rylands & Sons.[1] At its peak, the company employed a workforce of 15,000 in 17 mills and factories, producing 35 tons of cloth a day."

There is a much longer writeup on John Rylands in the article, I have quoted the lead paragraphs only.

The two images were of the Pincombe family at South Molton:

Formerly Phillipps MS. 31843, being lot 303 in the 1911 sale  RYCH/2890  April 3, 1605

Archival history:
[R. 77719]

Contents:
Co. DEVON.
An extent of all the manors, etc. of the late John Pincombe, gentleman,
inherited by his son and heir, John Pincombe the younger; taken at South
Molton, co. Devon, Parchment roll. Seal missing.

I have been trying to place the lines of this family in a correct historical timeline. There are four John Pincombe's in this line with the first being the son of the first Pincombe member at North Molton who arrived with Lord Zouch in 1485 according to the Visitation of Devon 1620 (original). This John Pincombe was likely born in the early 1500s and had died by 1571 at South Molton. According to the original Visitation of Devon 1620 he had two sons John and Christopher who both lived at South Molton. It is possible that the wife of this first John Pincombe was of the Dodderidge family. Her brother John was the father of Richard Dodderidge and his daughter Amy married the grandson of the first John Pincombe. However, I am still proving that line.

The document has a preamble which states that John Pincombe senior (this is the son of the first John Pincombe) died 18 Dec 1604 at South Molton at which time his son John was still alive. However in the time between death and probate John Pincombe junior also living at South Molton and married to Amy Dodderidge 17 Nov 1578 at Barnstaple has died with probate 13 Apr 1605. Hence the heir at law became the son of John Pincombe and Amy Dodderidge and this was again John Pincombe (a minor by the terms of the will) who was born 11 Feb 1584 at Barnstaple and he married Mary Carew. These two are the parents of Gertrude Pincombe who left the Pincombe Trust which included the properties listed on this "Extent of Manors" which was prepared to be attached to the Probate.

This now clarifies the descent of the Pincombe family in this line and with the son of John Pincombe and Mary Carew dying without heirs, the line became extinct in the Pincombe family. This was the armigerous line of the Pincombe family. Since the Coat of Arms was awarded in 1616 it must have been to John Pincombe married to Mary Carew but there does appear to be a discrepancy in that regard as the Coat of Arms appears to have been awarded in 1598 as well. Perhaps the original awarding was to John Pincombe as High Sheriff of South Molton (John Pincombe senior) and then in 1616 his grandson John applied to renew the Coat of Arms to himself and as the eldest and heir apparent of his grandfather he would inherit the right to bear the Coat of Arms bourne by his grandfather.

I shall transcribe the information at a later date but I am now satisfied that this line is correct although there is no mention of Christopher's line which was shown to be extinct on the charts of the earlier Pincombe study. Christopher himself had died by 1585 at South Molton but he appears to have left two sons John and William. William does appear to have an extended family which appears to be later found at Bideford. Only yDNA can really answer the lines of the Pincombe family found around the North Devon area and later much further afield.

Transcribing Parish Registers for North Molton continuing

The Parish Registers continuing into the 1580s contain only the baptisms thus far. I am hopeful that marriages and burials may be hidden somewhere further along. Occasionally I have been lucky to have that happen. No more Pincombe entries at North Molton in the past few years. At the end of 1585 there are now 1123 baptisms, marriages are 144 at the end of 1571 and burials 325 also at the end of 1571. There will be a generation of missing marriages and burials although the priest has, beginning in 1577, entered in the mother's forename which might be helpful in some cases with sorting families. The current priest does not enter the abode of the parents very often and that was helpful with the earlier record keeping.

More new surnames are entering into the parish and some are disappearing (like Pincombe unfortunately). However, the Pincombe family is known to be at North Molton in this time period but they may have attended churches closer to their farms. This would have been the case with the Pincombe family at Filleigh and East Buckland as there were Churches at both of these villages.

I was most pleased that I managed to download all the Indenture/Masters records from the National Archives (79 files in all - most greater than 400 pages) and I am contemplating taking on the preparation of an index for this information (it will be freely available and if I can not give it away then it will be on my website). It will be a long project (probably a couple of years). I shall soon construct the file for entry. It is something I can carry with me if ever we travel. The images that I have glanced at thus far are very good.

I also downloaded the Chelsea Pensions (5 files) but I believe that these are already on the FindMyPast site. I thought they would make interesting reading over time. I am a subscriber to both Ancestry and FindMyPast so will check out their databases and see what they have entered from these files.

I also want to return to transcribing Abbotts Ann now that the days are shortening and somewhat dull by afternoon letting me read readily from the microfiche reader. Now that I have started North Molton though I will complete it first.

I had sent Penton Mewsey and Upper Clatford transcriptions to the OPC Hampshire site earlier in the year but have not yet seen them online.  I did add them to my website though and hopefully they will soon be up on the OPC site.

Reading - Springtime in Britain by Edwin Way Teale

Our 45th anniversary was just the other day and one of the books that my husband gave to me was entitled "Springtime in Britain" by Edwin Way Teale. I haven't read anything by him previously since I never was prone to reading travel books but we are planning a driving tour of parts of the British Isles and this book has quite captured my thoughts in that regard. Basically he and his wife went by boat landing at Southampton, rented a car and headed for southwest England - Land's End to be exact and they intended to then zigzag across country traveling the width and breadth of Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) to John o' Groats in the north of Scotland. Part way through the book you do discover what prompted them to do so aside from their incredible interest in traveling, ornithology, flora, fauna and geology as their son David was stationed in England during the Second World War and he died in France. His letters home told of the rich fauna and flora of the country in which he was residing although he could not reveal details of where he actually was stationed. Using various guide books and writings by noted naturalists, they traveled daily about England in a more or less organized zigzag pattern that took them 11,000 miles from Land's End to John o' Groats.

The book was written in 1970 and so England is much changed in the fourty one years that have passed since the writing but surprisingly as he talked about the mists of Dorset and the windswept shores of North Devon I could see once again our own trips to these areas. He captures Grasmere in the Lakes District beautifully and many many other parts of England.

We have decided to do our own car trip in England although the exact dates are unknown at this time. I think it will be at least one year in the planning. We planned our four days in London last year over a two week interval. The better the planning; the more you can revise it to suit you but still not miss what you really wanted to see/do whilst traveling is the thought.

Probably the most practical way to begin would be to fly once again to London Heathrow but this time rent a car and head for Canterbury. My cousins live in Sutton (18.2 miles from Heathrow) so we could book a hotel there and visit with them for a short time. The next day we would be at Canterbury which is another 70 miles further along. Then we would begin our swing around the south eastern coast past Dover, Battle and Hastings and on to Brighton. My fingers itch to spend a couple of days in Winchester Record Office and we will see if we can manage that as well. I think two or three days of driving and then a break at Record Offices will probably work very well.

I was having trouble seeing the trip in my mind as a doable item but this book demonstrates the possibility of doing such a trip. For the most part they followed their plan but did deviate as the need arose. They began at the end of March which I rather think could be quite formidable even in southern England. There is still the possibility of snow (and they did experience a heavy snowfall near Salisbury) and the rain can be quite heavy in April. I think we might try to begin in mid May and return home end of June. No more than 40 days but we have some sections that we would not repeat - we would not go to Wales although we really enjoyed Wales our trip with Trafalgar gave us such a good study of Wales. We do not, either of us, have any ancestors who were Welsh (at least not after the mid 1500s). We also spent quite a bit of time in the Lake District and would not repeat our trip to Grasmere or Lake Windermere. Again we traveled through Northumberland and Durham and do not feel a strong call to repeat those areas. Leaving out those rather large sections does make one feel that we can see everything that we want to see and do everything that we want to do in 40 days.

It would also be tempting to go in July and August but they are vacation time in England and we might find it more difficult with the increased traffic on the roads to manage. We will have a reunion of our Routledge Clan in 2014 and then we can see more of Scotland at that time.

Planning fourty days should be rather fun. We have somewhat of an idea of distances and how long secondary roads can take to travel upon in England. For instance we traveled from Bridport to Northam a distance of 80 miles and it took the better part of two hours with no stops. I think if we think of 40 miles being a maximum distance to travel in one hour we are probably going to be fairly close. We have a tendency to stop so will have to build that in. For some parts of England we would just like to drive along and experience the countryside without stopping a lot. In the southeast we, neither of us, have a lot of ancestral interest although my husband's Mead family is from Kent but they came to Massachusetts Bay Colony in the 1630s. There are others doing an in-house search for Mead ancestry and we will content ourselves with just enjoying Kent - the garden of England as my grandmother used to refer to it as.

But Hampshire, Wiltshire, Dorset, Devon, Cornwall and Somerset all have areas that interest both of us and we will look at them differently although I think I might find it somewhat sad to travel to the parts of Dorset that we visited with my cousins. Ivan passed away this past year and I still feel the loss. We corresponded for over 25 years and met only the one time but it was a marvelous meeting and I learned a great deal about him in that short time. So we will do the bottom of England at our pace and then skirt back to Oxford and see Windsor before heading into the Midlands.

Missing items in North Molton Parish Registers and Open Files at The National Archives

Still working on the North Molton Parish Registers and up until 1571 baptisms, marriages and burials were all recorded. However, beginning in 1572 only baptisms are recorded and that has continued to the end of 1578 where I now am. There are now 900 baptisms, 144 marriages and 325 burials. One is left to ponder whether North Molton is that very exceptional parish where there are 50% fewer burials than anywhere else. Up to 1571 the baptisms outnumbered the burials 2:1 approximately. A very healthy sign but unusual for the time period.

A few new names in the parish but the names there in the late 1530s continue also in the parish. There is an increase in baptisms from the early register.

The National Archives is offering for the moment downloads of particular microfilm sets (with a suggestion that transcriptions of these items would be welcomed and could be placed on the "Your Archives" website) and this information can be found

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/digital-microfilm.asp

Quoted from the above mentioned website:  "Digital Microfilm allows you to search and download some of The National Archives' most popular records, which were previously available on microfilm. The National Archives has a large collection of microfilmed records, and we hope that making these available online will increase their accessibility. This will ultimately allow the microfilm readers used at The National Archives, Kew to be retired. Many of the records are indexes and we hope that these will be helpful in locating other relevant records.

The Digital Microfilm method of delivery is by using very large pdfs. Each download contains a whole piece, which could be up to 800 pages long. This means that Digital Microfilm is only available to online users with a broadband connection, and to users in the Research and Enquiries Room at The National Archives.

These records have not been indexed and so you will need to scroll through the pdfs, much as you would when using a microfilm. However, we would be more than happy for users to transcribe any of the Digital Microfilm content and post it on Your Archives, The National Archives' online community of records users.

These documents are currently free of charge to download."

The list of items available is fairly lengthy and I was very pleased to find the Wills from the pre Commonwealth period online:

"PROB 10 Prerogative Court of Canterbury and Other Probate Jurisdictions: Bundles of Original Wills and Sentences -These are the Prerogative Court of Canterbury wills for 1643-6 proved at Oxford, for which there are no copies in PROB 11. The wills are pieces PROB 10/639-642."

The four files found there are huge as a warning but should prove to be very interesting in looking at my husband's Royalist ancestors who came to America in the 1630s, 1640s and 1650s. Each file is around 800 pages.

I also downloaded a couple of Indenture files to see if I can discover anything about my London families - Buller, Beard, Hemsley, Roland, Cole.

I have so much transcription and reading to do that purchasing more documents almost seems strange. Nevertheless I have now ordered the Pincombe document that pertains to the lands that were transferred from John Pincombe Merchant South Molton to his son John Pincombe Merchant South Molton in 1605. This father and son died within half of a year or so of each other with the son dying after the father. I am hoping that by the land I might be able to look more closely at this early Pincombe family and separate out lines that do not easily separate out any other way. I was able to purchase the document from the John Rylands University Library at the University of Manchester as two *.tif although must wait until they have time to do the two files for me. I am of course most anxious to see it but I imagine they are busy this time of year with student affairs as the new school year advances.